Advice RE assessment - using old reports
Hello.
In 2021 I had a paper based assessment due to a covid back log I assume and maintained my enhanced PIP on both accounts.
I received review paperwork in 2023 and filled this in and sent it in July 2023.
Fast forward 12 months to about a week a go I received a call from Capita asking to book me in for an assessment due to "new conditions" I found this odd as I only have one small skin condition but no other changes. Luckily I type my review forms when I send them in so I printed off my review form from 2021 where I maintained enhanced and also my review from 2023 and there's no changes other than this skin condition.
Had the assessment today at 8am, after she initially rang twice and hung up immediately. Id asked in advance to have this recorded which they agreed to but she said her system wasn't working and I could either go ahead or reschedule. I decided to go ahead thinking the majority of my information and evidence was on her system and evident from my last review and it would only be this one new condition I'd really need to speak in great deal about and how my other conditions still affect me. I also privately recorded the call so I'm sure I cannot use this as evidence.
She then stated that the majority of my mental health issues and anything from 2018+ were all new conditions. When I said no I put them on my last review she said my last review was in 2018 and i didnt have them then so these were new conditions. When I advised her of my successful review in 2022 she said they didn't have those forms - therefore a large majority of what she was assessing that had already been assessed she treated as new unknown conditions. It was treated more like a change of circumstances than a review.
I stumbled my way through the whole assessment if I'm honest. I was so angry that i didn't say half of what I should of said. I couldnt find the correct bits in my paperwork. She seemed more focused on whether I was under any care for my conditions rather than how they affected me and didn't ask much information about them or my symptoms. She also wanted to know how long it took me to have a bath or get dressed rather than acknowledging I only do these with specific help.
Trigger warning - I was SA in 2021 which the DWP know about as it was included in this review form and my previous review. It's the main reason for my complex PTSD. When she was asking why I don't go out and I mentioned that she told me she would not be putting SA on my report as she's not allowed as its "personal information" which anyone could read and she'd put past events. I feel like that is too broad a term. Past events could mean anything and of course it's personal information. Isn't all of your evidende/reports/assessments personal? It that incident is why I have this condition now surely it needs to be put on my report?
The whole thing has filled me with zero confidence and im certain i will fail. I've spoken to Capita and put a complaint in regarding her having no up to date information and also the way I was treated. Someone is supposed to call me in 24/48 hours. I've also spoken to the DWP and made them aware she was using out of date information and that I don't feel like the assessment was done correctly based on this and her treating everything like new conditions which fumbled me and her refusing to write things in my report. Where do I stand? Will the DM go off of the report only which is obviously going to be terrible given my experience or will they look at my case as a whole i.e previous reports. I want to try and get on top of this before the inevitable stopping of my award.
I need to add I was expected an assessment as it had been awhile since I had one but I would of thought Capita would use the most up to date information not 6+ year old forms where there's barely any information. I also send in a good 20/30 page typed document with my review form telling them exactly what my conditions are, what my symptoms are, how these affect me etc. I'm very very detailed and this was obviously more than enough to be accepted previously.
Many thanks.
Comments
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I'm sorry there are definitely some typos in there I cannot correct.
Will a DM even look at the notes where I've called DWP to complain? They're saying I can only complain once the reports received. I'm guessing that's another term for a MR.
I'm just so concerned I'm going to lose everything including my motability car that I require to get me to London for surgery. Ive been on a waiting list for nearly 7 months. There's no other way I will be able to attend. She also found it strange I have a driving license but do not drive. Is that so unheard of?!?!
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Hi @bubsxo
You said:
'I also privately recorded the call so I'm sure I cannot use this as evidence'
But this is actually not the case. Covert recordings of a DWP Assessment are permitted to be used at a Tribunal Hearing. - Knowledge & Information Liaison Officer Regional Support Unit, National Business Centre HM Courts and Tribunals Service https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/pip_covert_recording_admissibili/response/ 2465608/attach/8/231014008%20Jess%20Thorpe%20Response.pdf? cookie_passthrough=1
So you can secretly record a conversation with the DWP or assessor and not tell them about it and later use it against them by submitting it to the tribunal.
In the meantime you could also transcribe it and sent it in to the DWP if you wanted to. There are no rules which say you cannot do this.
Further, the best thing to do now is to write a letter to the DWP - you can do this for free - you don't need to buy a stamp and you don't need to paid for signed for.
In your letter I would advise trying to keep it to one or two sides of A4. Explain you've put in a complaint and the reasons why. You can also re-iterate why you are entitled.
Further, I would advise you do an SAR to the DWP and get a copy of your file to see if the old report is in there?
Here is a list of Freeport addresses
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/single_line_freepost_addresses_f/response/ 919349/attach/3/Reply Letter 4333.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1
Write the Freepost address above the actual address with postcode.
Hope that is of some help.
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@flour ,
Firstly apologies for my long rambly post! Its been an exhausting day.
Thank you so much. I was under the impression I could refer back to my recording if she put incorrect information such as claimant states this when I didn't, but I wasn't sure if I could use it as actual evidence so that's really handy to know if I unfortunately need to use it - thank you. I did actually start transcribing it for my own records today so it's easier to read than listen to as it was quite upsetting. But I got frustrated at how rushed it was so I stopped. I'll get back onto that.
I will definitely write a complaint to the DWP thankyou. The first person I spoke to didn't seem that interested just passed me back to Capita to make a complaint. When I called again he said he'd put notes on that the DM "could" see but I couldn't put a formal complaint in until the reports been received. Do you mean reiterate why I believe I'm entitled despite not knowing the outcome yet? I actually had to get a proof of entitlement recently as my award had been extended and they included the scoring and descriptors from my last review in 2021 so i can see exactly what I was given.
I've never done a SAR before. Can you give me any more information on one please? DWP are saying they can see my previous review form and report so are unsure why Capita are claiming they don't have it. Capita are obviously passing the blame back to DWP.
Thankyou again!
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When you have a review rather than send your file straight to the assessment providers they are sent to a decision maker. From there they will look at your form and any other evidence you sent to see if a decision can be made without having to send your file across. If it can then a decision will be made. When this happens there's no assessment report written so this will be why they didn't have any details about that review.
Same happened to myself and daughter in 2021.
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Oh, thankyou for clarifying that @poppy123456
You'd think they would at the very least include your review forms though, to prevent Capita from assuming conditions are new which were previously mentioned? So you could have a full review not one that's focused on "new conditions" only and barely touching others.
On that basis do you think I should just give up with the complaint and focus on drafting up a MR for the inevitable? I just have a terrible feeling about it all. Because she was so concerned about the mental health aspect and not the physical, I don't think they'll extend my award. Also, due to permitted work aswell - although I made it very clear I do this from home on a laptop as and when I can and my hours have dramatically decreased following recent mental health struggles.
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She already mentioned your review in 2018 which she must have had information on, they usually do. As there was no report written for your last review then no she wouldn't have had information on that.
When you filled out your form last year did you treat it as a new claim and give as much relevant information as possible? Or did you just put no change and no further information?
I think you maybe jumping the gun here, I can't tell you the amount of people I've heard stories from where they think it didn't go well and ended up being awarded. I wouldn't personally speculate anything at this stage.
Is there a complaint to made about not having the information from your last review? no because if there's no report, there's no information for them. This is another reason why treating all claims as a new claim, even for reviews is very important. Not forgetting that they may not be enough of time during the assessment to go through everything, which is another reason to make sure everything is included in your form. It's the most important part of a PIP claim.
Although she was only concerned about your mental health, that doesn't mean your physical conditions were ignored. There may have been enough of information about those so no questions were needed.
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Yes I believe you can reiterate why your entitled even if you don't know the outcome. You can at anytime write anything to the DWP for the attention of the decision maker and if its something you're set on doing then I'm happy to advise what I would think is helpful.
For transcribing and then going in to a 'I stated X but the assessor reported Y' narrative doesn't automatically entitled you to PIP.
It's more important that you focus on why you qualify for the descriptors that you qualify for. Its easy enough to do a general, 'the assessors report is flawed with inaccurate data as confirmed by the recording at these times X, Y and Z vs what was recorded in the functional history'.
But that won't say that you should be on PIP and why. I'd go through each activity and write out a few real world examples in a story like fashion of what goes on. But, with your health being complex you might find keeping some diaries from the CAB website first will generate evidence which you can send in, and then using the diaries as a starting point to go through the actives with the diaries to back yourself up.
SAR
An SAR means a subject access request. To request your personal information from the Department for Work and Pensions. You have the right to get a copy of the information that is held about you. This is called the 'right of access'. You can go on to the gov uk website and search DWP SAR and ask DWP for copies of what paper work they have that you'd like. You don't need to give a reason and its a totally separate department which deals with these requests.
You can ask for a 'complete copy of their entire records' or something more specific. It doesn't usually come quicker if you ask for less and sometimes they can miss stuff off, but if you ask for everything they have, then that will answer the question as to how many reports there are.
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Please help, as expected the report I recieved states 0 points, meaning more than likely a complete loss of any entitlement to pip at all when I've been receiving enhanced on both for years. I'm guessing I have to hand the motability car back as soon as possible also.
How do i proceed please. I know I need to do a MR. Can I ask to speak to a DM beforehand? Alot of it is incorrect. She wrote everything I stated down correctly but then goes on to state the following for
Daily living
"Restrictions reported: 1a 2a 3a 4a 5a 6a 7a 8a 9a 10a. I can confirm that STAR has been considered in all activities and recommendations are based in the majority of days.
Previous report states 1d 2d 3b 4c 5a 6c 7a 8a 9b 10b The HOC shows a diagnosis of mental health conditions, MSK conditions, costochondritis, endometriosis, interstitial cystitis, recurring cystitis, hidradenitis suppurative, vestibular migraines, acid reflux, kidney stones, pilonidal sinus and plantar fascitid and functional restrictions reported for activies 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 8 and 10.
Restrictions reported in the AR1 or SOH for activities 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 and 10 are medically inconsistent at the time of assessment, as the HOC, IO, and SOH shows they report no specialist input for their mental health conditions, have had limited input with the GP, have no cognitive impairment to support forgetfulness, reports no changes to their mental health medication for many years, and is not on the maximum dose, have no anxiolytics prescribed for the level of anxiety reported, had limited input with the crisis team and was not referred for any specialist input, and was able to complete the assessment and answer all questions showing good cognition and memory recall and engaged well with the DA, therefore is likely they can manage their own medication, finances, and engaged unaided reliably, they have had no specialist input for their fibromyalgia for several years, states has had no specialist input for their other MSK conditions, had very limited input with physiotherapy, have had no input with OT to support the level of Restrictions reported, only have single pain relief prescribed, have had no increase to their amitryptaline dose for many years, have had no specialist input for their costochondritis, endometriosis, skin condition, migraines, kidney stones, plantar fascitis, or pilonidal sinus and reports no referrals, have not been prescribed any additional pain relief, and have had no aids or adaptions to the home therefore is likely they cam wash, dress, and manage their toilet needs reliably has no input for incontinence reported, have no hearing or visual impairments, is able to chop up food, and clip in their own seat belt showing a functional grip and dexterity, is able to wash on the majority of days showing motivation, and can eat 2 meal a day. Therefore is likely to be As"
And for motability she's written basically the same as above, stating 11a 12a Previous 11e 12c and states due to the above it is likely I can walk 200 metres or more reliably and symptoms reported whilst undertaking a journey are unlikely to meet the high threshold of OPD therefore is likely to be As
She's also stated the functional restriction affecting daily living is likely to have been present for not applicable no functional restriction present and also the same for motability.
How can she say nothing is present?
She states I can chop food - I never said that. I do not cook for myself my partner cooks for me, and prompts me to eat.
I do not manage my own medication, he loads my medication into a dosette box to prevent me from overdosing and I rely on him prompting me to take it and also setting alarms.
He deals with all of my finances as I compusively spend money.
I do not engage anywhere unaided reliably. He comes to all appointments with me. I don't go anywhere alone. She states he drops me off at the door which I never said - then says he attends all appointments with me? Contradicting.
Regarding no specialist treatment, there is nothing more they can do for my fibromyalgia, MSK conditions, and bladder conditions. I've seen a rheumatologist who told me to buy a tens machine. A physiotherapist gave me exercises I couldn't do.
I haven't been referred for my pilonidal sinus yet I told her I'm awaiting an appointment for a referral with a specialist in London!
Without boring you even more basically the whole report scoring is inconsistent. I don't need help bathing yet my partner physically bathes me. I can get dressed unaided but he physically dresses me. Those are a few examples. I can never get a GP appointment as they have none available and because of that according to her I'm fine and no significant restrictions are reported.
I could cry. I have cried. We do not own a car other than my motability vehicle so now it will be impossible to attend hospital appointments and referrals, not to mention the massive loss in income now and also the SDP of my esa.
I did put a complaint in to Capita prior but I don't know what else I can do.
I feel like giving up.
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Also apologies for the long post. I need to go to bed as this is winding me up now. Apparently I can walk unaided 200metres which is roughly 5 double decker buses. When she asked me to picture a bus i told her I rarely make it past the middle without having to stop due to the pain. How can someone lie like this :(
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When you filled out the form did you treat it as a new claim and give as much relevant information as possible? Or did you just write no changes, if there weren't any and nothing else?
Mostly they go with the report but it has been known for them to go against it and I've seen it happen on here.
Yes, you can ring PIP to ask to speak to a decision maker and hopefully someone will ring you back.
I'd also advise you to put in a complaint with the health assessment providers, details on how to do that will be on their website.
If you are refused and your PIP stops then yes unfortunately you will need to return the car.
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Hi Poppy,
Thankyou once again for responding to my ramblings.
I treated it as always as a new claim and gave as much relevant information as I could. My AR1 (I hope that's right) is identical to my previous paper based report that I received enhanced daily living and motability for. I included 1 new condition. I go into much detail as possible as to how it affects me and what help i recieve.
I rang capita to complain about the report. I'd already rang them prior to receiving it regarding the assessment. She wrote down my concerns but said she couldn't discuss scoring. She said the recommendations are assessors opinions only and she cannot confirm why she has that opinion even though it states the reasoning being no specialist input etc when to be honest there isn't any more specialist input I can try. I've tried everything.
I mentioned I recorded the call - they've requested a copy of this.
I'm currently on hold to PIP to request a DM calls me. I just don't understand how I've gone from enhanced on both to zeros across the board. I've told them I need assistance and prompting with the majority of things but according to "her opinion" I can do these things unaided and dont recieve any help.
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