Charging disabled people who need care and support is UNFAIR

poppy123456

2oldcodgers said:

As an aside I sometimes wonder what would happen if the individual is cash poor (on state benefits for example) but owns and lives in a house without a mortgage valued at say £850,000. Is a charge placed on that home much like that would happen if they went into residential care? 

The home you live in is disregarded.

2oldcodgers

poppy123456 said:

2oldcodgers said:

As an aside I sometimes wonder what would happen if the individual is cash poor (on state benefits for example) but owns and lives in a house without a mortgage valued at say £850,000. Is a charge placed on that home much like that would happen if they went into residential care? 

The home you live in is disregarded.

If someone goes into residential care a financial assessment has to take place to ascertain what, if any, contribution is to be made by the NHS and/or the local authority. If the LA is left with the bill then they would compensate themselves by putting a charging order on the home. That is how I read the regulations - may be wrong and stand to be corrected.

Wibbles

I was wondering what happens if, to start with, you need care, based on your personal savings - which then run out after, say 3 years - but your care needs remain the same/get worse.

Are you expected to change care providers/ do you get treated any differently etc ?

stopcouncilabuse

@Matthewsmum29

Hi

Your view is my view entirely.

My son has a complexity of interrelated and non related issues, including learning disability; degenerative OCD;sensory processing disorder; registered partially sighted; scoliosis; separation anxiety disorder and on we go
He is my everyday slice of awesome.
For years I’ve been trying to access legal justice for my son, over this very issue.
He is now 27 years of age and his needs are expanding, not diminishing.
The LA appear to have nobody whom understands, his needs . My son is being charged £90 plus/week in contributions. Although, I have evidence of disputing their very discriminatory and ham fisted, bullying tactics of not granting a face 2 face consultation to present how they have come to this amount AND ALSO, they have not shown any calculation for his PB, they have gone ahead and have now invoiced my son for £5k plus to be paid by 21/5/24. With no transactional break down, no appeal process highlighted, no complaints procedure indicated and no contact to make an agreement and on that goes as well. I will of course be challenging it, but I feel that unless the Public Law and Human rights lawyers are not more proactive on behalf of those without a voice and pull the LA’s into line and make them work within the perimeter of the many laws that have been thoughtfully drafted to protect such individuals, then the councils and to be frank the LGO, are going to continue to push aside their rights. It’s time for MP’s snd lawyers to grant easier access to the justice system for those who are the ‘most vulnerable’ , yet innocent and beautiful in society.
i felt so alone with this until I tried a different search and hit on this thread

matthewsmum29

Following your comment, when your son had his financial assessment, were you aware of Disability Related Expenses and Household Related Expenses?

When a local authority carries out a financial assessment, they will look at the person's income, usually disability benefits.

They arrive at the amount they must contribute as follows:

INCOME - (MIG (Government Minimum Income Guarantee) + Disability Related Expenses + Household Related Expenses)  = Contribution

It is important to put down every expense related to your son's disability.

Also, look at the local authority's charging policy. Is it discriminatory?

I'm not paying any charges for my son, because I challenged my local authority because their charging policy discriminates against severely disabled people.

If you want to do a legal challenge, I would recommend Leigh Day. You should be able to get legal aid.

Local authorities don't want to change their charging policies, but to avoid a judicial review, they will settle with individuals on an ad hoc basis.

Have a look at the following judgment - SH v Norfolk County Council 2020. It is an example of how a charging policy can be discriminatory.

stopcouncilabuse

Matthewsmum29

i can’t thank you enough for your advice and for caring to respond.

It is so helpful.

i have been trying since 2016 to get Cheshire East to sit down and go through the DRE for my son, which are substantial.

But, they just ignore me, even after an OMBUDSMAN outcome and keep stopping his payment to take spurious amounts back, leaving him for months without payment . When I challenge them to provide a transactional breakdown and provision debt recovery procedure, they completely disregard my protests.

it seems to me that because of their own financial failings, which we all know are now plummeting into bankruptcy, they are once more choosing low hanging fruit to cover their losses.

I see it as theft and manipulation . In my opinion it looks as though my son and others are being made to pay twice for their care.

But, you are a God send.

Because of you I can now sleep, when I eventually get to bed. 

Albus_Scope

Hi there @stopcouncilabuse and welcome to the community.

I'm glad to hear you've found some help and comfort here, your situation doesn't sound easy. I'm hoping the advice will be great for you and your son.  Will you please keep us updated? 

stopcouncilabuse

@Albus_Scope

Thank you so much for your support.

The LA’s are a rats nest of underhanded, save their own skins egos, whom appear to think that because the organisation they work for has ‘authority’ in the title , that this gives them the right to flout the many laws in place, which offer an umbrella of protection for those with a lesser voice and certainly lesser financial clout in society.

In our case, there’s working to the LA’s making it up as they go along law.

They breach:-
contracts
procecedures
policies
laws.

The documentation is full of maladministration.

They frequently breach data protection.

 But, because Public and human rights lawyers are so deeply difficult to source, if you don’t live in a major city and even if you do they are full to capacity the LA know legally that it is difficult in these situations for clients to get legal representation , they just think they can turn the screw tighter and tighter.

i know some years ago the LA’s were playing the game of suddenly settling 30 mins before court meaning the client solicitor didn’t get paid snd putting law firms off representation, in legal aid cases

Nasty.

But, thank you and have a wonderful bank holiday full of sunshine and happiness 

Wibbles

I struggled to even get a care needs assessment - from my LA - Because they claimed that my wife/carer took full responsibility for me !!

My wife gets zero help from the LA - only Carers allowance !

She is stressed out and fast running out of OOoomph - so no idea what will happen to me if something happens  to her !

I queried  this and was told eventually " YES, I DID CARRY OUT THE ASSESSMENT"

The care needs assessment is needed before any financial assessment can be carried out

I was told that because I had a reasonable amount in savings - NO financial assistance would be made - either towards my home improvement, an (absolutely necessary), now completed £60k+ downstairs toilet/wetroom, or any care that I may need, now or in the future.....

matthewsmum29

Hello.

As your carer, your wife is legally entitled to an assessment in her own right - Carers and Disabled Children Act 2000. This assessment will look at what she needs to enable her to continue caring for you. This is often done in conjunction with the disabled person's assessment, mainly due to funding. Your wife may be entitled to some respite.

If you have a substantial amount of savings, you will need to check the amount with your local authority, you will be expected to make a full contribution to the costs of your care.

Dolltor

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/857561#Comment_857561

Wirral Council want to charge my son £130 a Week towards his care cost. Hardly leaves him any money. How can he expect to work towards independent living when he has hardly anything left after these charge. I'm in dispute and intend to fight on. I think you said you live in a neighbouring authority. It might be nice to make contact and compare notes.

matthewsmum29

Hello, it's good that you are disputing the charge. At the moment, I'm challenging my Local Authority again about my son's financial assessment (last time was November 2023). I've worked out that he shouldn't be charged because the total of the MIG (Minimum Income Guarantee) and his Household and Disability Related Expenses exceeds his income (PIP and ESA). Therefore, there is nothing left for them to take.

£130 seems a very high charge. Are there any other Disability Related Expenses you can use to bring this amount down? Are the Council using the correct MIG? The Minimum Income Guarantee is the amount set by Government that a person needs to live on. Have you looked at his utilities' costs? Are they higher than average? If they are, they could be Disability Related Expenses.

Just to remind you know how they work out the charge. They will take the amount of your son's income, excluding earnings. In most cases, income is made up from disability benefits. Then they will subtract the MIG amount from the income amount. Your son will have Household and Disability Related Expenses. The total of these will also be subtracted from the income amount. Then the Local Authority will assume they are entitled to what is left.

I live in the South West.