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PIP Appeal online form help

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dan1
dan1 Community member Posts: 17 Listener
Hello thanks in advance for anyone who can offer me any guidance on this.
After setting up online appeal for Appealing a benefit decision on HM  Courts and Tribunals service i come to question
Your reasons for appealing   What you disagree with
                                             Why you disagree with it.(you can write as much as you want)
Im Confused do i simply right something like " I do not agree with the decision" "I do not believe the assessor has correctly assessed how my disability affects my day to day life"? 
Or
Is this where i should include all my arguments including examples of how my health conditions impact my daily life etc or is that for later on in the appeal process.

Do i just put in appeal then provide evidence later after i receive file possibly? Or is this where i say everything.
Many thanks 

Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,193 Disability Gamechanger
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    You can just give very brief reasons why you disagree with the decision. The rest can be done at a later date if needed.

    I will say one thing though, concentrating wholly on the assessment report will not get you a PIP award. You need to concentrate on where and why you think you should have scored those points. If there's any obvious contradictions in the report you can mention a couple of those but then leave it at that. They already know that some assessment reports are flawed.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • dan1
    dan1 Community member Posts: 17 Listener
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    You can just give very brief reasons why you disagree with the decision. The rest can be done at a later date if needed.

    I will say one thing though, concentrating wholly on the assessment report will not get you a PIP award. You need to concentrate on where and why you think you should have scored those points. If there's any obvious contradictions in the report you can mention a couple of those but then leave it at that. They already know that some assessment reports are flawed.
    Thanks for the advice. I do understand what you are saying. Ive read this while ive been researching how to do my appeal recently online. IE concentrating on why i think i deserve PIP rather than trying to focus on or blame the assessors or reports being inaccurate. 
    Im going to include real life accounts of what i struggle with and actual examples of the problems im having on a day to day basis in my home etc. I was far too focussed on the good days during my assessment and have since learned i should be talking about the worst days.
    Is this where i would include that information,Under What i disagree with and why i disagree with it?

    Thankyou again
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,193 Disability Gamechanger
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    dan1 said:
    You can just give very brief reasons why you disagree with the decision. The rest can be done at a later date if needed.

    I will say one thing though, concentrating wholly on the assessment report will not get you a PIP award. You need to concentrate on where and why you think you should have scored those points. If there's any obvious contradictions in the report you can mention a couple of those but then leave it at that. They already know that some assessment reports are flawed.
     I was far too focussed on the good days during my assessment and have since learned i should be talking about the worst days.


    No, absolute not at all. That's the worst thing you can do. Where did you read that from? Where ever it was, it's terrible. PIP is how you are on the majority of the days, so at least 50% of the time over a 12 month period.

    What you need to do is give a couple of real world examples of exactly what happened the last time you attempted each descriptor that applies to you. Adding detailed information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were.

    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,193 Disability Gamechanger
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    One thing i've realised over the past 10 years is that it does help to have some understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean. Mentioning your worst days is telling me that you have little understanding. Start here. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria
    It's also never too late to get expert advice and even representation. Welfare Rights or a law centre are both good places to start. Citizens Advice very rarely represent now. Start here. https://advicelocal.uk/welfare-benefits


    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • dan1
    dan1 Community member Posts: 17 Listener
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    dan1 said:
    You can just give very brief reasons why you disagree with the decision. The rest can be done at a later date if needed.

    I will say one thing though, concentrating wholly on the assessment report will not get you a PIP award. You need to concentrate on where and why you think you should have scored those points. If there's any obvious contradictions in the report you can mention a couple of those but then leave it at that. They already know that some assessment reports are flawed.
     I was far too focussed on the good days during my assessment and have since learned i should be talking about the worst days.


    No, absolute not at all. That's the worst thing you can do. Where did you read that from? Where ever it was, it's terrible. PIP is how you are on the majority of the days, so at least 50% of the time over a 12 month period.

    What you need to do is give a couple of real world examples of exactly what happened the last time you attempted each descriptor that applies to you. Adding detailed information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were.

    My worst days are more than 50 % of the time.Thats a separate point. My assessment caught me on a good day and i did not draw attention enough in my opinion to the negative effects my condition has on my daily life. I really thought my assessor understood how much i was struggling but only seemed to highlight the positives in the report.
    What do you mean "its the worst thing i can do? I dont think you understand what i have said and are also incorrect in saying its terrible.
    Ive tried to get advice from lots organisations, CAB didnt have a clue and another organisation said they can only help me when i get an appeal date.
    So obviously im having to do my best and research myself through forums and past case studies etc. I can assure you im not an idiot who has quoted something completely incorrect ,i was actually agreeing with you.

  • dan1
    dan1 Community member Posts: 17 Listener
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    If the only way you can do something is to do it badly, unsafely, slowly or only occasionally, then select the descriptor that says you can’t do it.

     if you can’t do a task as many times as you might need, or if doing it causes you pain, tiredness, breathlessness, nausea, or makes your condition worse, select the descriptor that says you can’t do it.

    From Advicenow website. Regarding the wost days scenarios i was referring to. 
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
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    dan1 said:. 
    My worst days are more than 50 % of the time.
    I think this is simply a language distinction. Poppy will have read ‘worst day’ to mean worse than usual (as would I do). I would describe what you are saying as your normal days (because they are the majority of days) but you sometimes have better days. If  you have based your answers on days, or a day, that are better than usual that I’d definitely a mistake.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • dan1
    dan1 Community member Posts: 17 Listener
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    calcotti said:
    dan1 said:. 
    My worst days are more than 50 % of the time.
    I think this is simply a language distinction. Poppy will have read ‘worst day’ to mean worse than usual (as would I do). I would describe what you are saying as your normal days (because they are the majority of days) but you sometimes have better days. If  you have based your answers on days, or a day, that are better than usual that I’d definitely a mistake.
    I Hope so as i dont need to be any more confused and disheartened than i already am. Ive spent countless hours researching scrolling, on hold on phone while not being able to sleep for days due to the pain of my condition. I Just wanted to know if i needed to go into detail on the first page on Online appeal form to all the reasons, give my accounts of daily problems im encountering. Is each descriptor a new thing i dont agree with and need to give my reason why. Hence why it says "add another reason" "you can write as much as you want" as it seems that on examples i have found of SSCS1 paper forms they just give a brief answer.
    If i dont add anything then surely i have a lot less chance of DWP possibly changing decision before appeal date. Or do i get a chance to go into detail after i put in appeal?
    Im on 7 points so not far off some award.
    Any help appreciated Thankyou
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2023
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    dan1 said:. I Just wanted to know if i needed to go into detail on the first page on Online appeal form to all the reasons,
    No you don’t, there is plenty of time to make a submission after the appeal is lodged. When have submitted appeals I have seldom said much more than “I disagree with the  DWP decision because their explanation contained within their decision letter indicates that they have misunderstood the difficulties I experience as a result of my health problems”.

    After the appeal is lodged DWP will prepare a ‘bundle’ which contains all the paperwork connected to your claim. They are supposed to do this on 28 days but it usually takes longer. When you get that you should check that everything you previously submitted has been included. You can then prepare your submission. You shouldn’t focus on the errors in DWP submission or in the assessment report, highlighting their mistakes will not get you an award. You can highlight a couple of errors and indicate that this shows that DWP have misunderstood. Tribunals know that assessment reports are usually poor and they don’t need to be persuaded of this. Your task is to review what you previously said on the PIP2 and wth any MR submission and add any additional descriptions you consider necessary to explain the difficulties you have and how these impact each of the activities and what happens when you try to do them.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,193 Disability Gamechanger
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    calcotti said:
    dan1 said:. 
    My worst days are more than 50 % of the time.
    I think this is simply a language distinction. Poppy will have read ‘worst day’ to mean worse than usual (as would I do).

    That's exactly how i read it as.
    You can just give brief answers on the form as i previously advised. If you've already done all that for the MR then you don't need to go into full detail on the form. Once the request has been submitted DWP will be contacted and will be given a timescale to respond. Once you've requested it then you can send more evidence, which should include the real world examples i mentioned above.

    DWP will review everything before they respond. They sometimes offer an award at that stage but it's rare so please don't expect this to happen.

    I'd advise you not to request a paper based hearing because they have a much less success rate of between 5-8%. It's much better to either appear in person, have a telephone or video hearing so the panel can hear it from you in your own words how your conditions affect you.



    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • dan1
    dan1 Community member Posts: 17 Listener
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    No you don’t, there is plenty of time to make a submission after the appeal is lodged.
    Thats great ,thanks very much.
  • dan1
    dan1 Community member Posts: 17 Listener
    Options

    After the appeal is lodged DWP will prepare a ‘bundle’ which contains all the paperwork connected to your claim. They are supposed to do this on 28 days but it usually takes longer. When you get that you should check that everything you previously submitted has been included. You can then prepare your submission. You shouldn’t focus on the errors in DWP submission or in the assessment report, highlighting their mistakes will not get you an award. You can highlight a couple of errors and indicate that this shows that DWP have misunderstood. Tribunals know that assessment reports are usually poor and they don’t need to be persuaded of this. Your task is to review what you previously said on the PIP2 and wth any MR submission and add any additional descriptions you consider necessary to explain the difficulties you have and how these impact each of the activities and what happens when you try to do them.
    This is brilliant, exactly the information i have been looking for all week. Many thanks for the detailed timeline and chain of events. I feel confident to lodge my appeal tomorrow.
  • dan1
    dan1 Community member Posts: 17 Listener
    edited January 2023
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  • dan1
    dan1 Community member Posts: 17 Listener
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    calcotti said:
    dan1 said:. I Just wanted to know if i needed to go into detail on the first page on Online appeal form to all the reasons,
    No you don’t, there is plenty of time to make a submission after the appeal is lodged. When have submitted appeals I have seldom said much more than “I disagree with the  DWP decision because their explanation contained within their decision letter indicates that they have misunderstood the difficulties I experience as a result of my health problems”.

    After the appeal is lodged DWP will prepare a ‘bundle’ which contains all the paperwork connected to your claim. They are supposed to do this on 28 days but it usually takes longer. When you get that you should check that everything you previously submitted has been included. You can then prepare your submission. You shouldn’t focus on the errors in DWP submission or in the assessment report, highlighting their mistakes will not get you an award. You can highlight a couple of errors and indicate that this shows that DWP have misunderstood. Tribunals know that assessment reports are usually poor and they don’t need to be persuaded of this. Your task is to review what you previously said on the PIP2 and wth any MR submission and add any additional descriptions you consider necessary to explain the difficulties you have and how these impact each of the activities and what happens when you try to do them.
    Im not sure if i gave a good account of my situation during my first telephone assessment or infact on the Mandatory reconsideration. My MR was taken over the phone and i think possibly some parts of the letter i had were left out as the lady on the phone did not seem very interested or happy to be writing it all down as i said it all over phone. 
    Im thinking of saying something along the lines of the statement you have used above

    I disagree with the  DWP decision because their explanation contained within their decision letter indicates that they have misunderstood the difficulties I experience as a result of my health problems.

    I was then thinking of adding another reason. -I have not included day to day examples of how my condition effects me on a daily basis previously and wish them to be considered. 

    Then in the reasons why right a small paragraph going through each descriptor and giving detailed  anecdotal evidence of your typical day. (Something ive read is very successful evidence at tribunals of this kind).

    Obviously im learning as i go and did not add anything like that on previous application. My hope is the DWP will read my Evidence ive added and hopefully make an offer for the extra 1 point i need to get PIP.

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