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Jobcentre refuse to create to-do list item to upload fitnote

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T_Watkins
T_Watkins Community member Posts: 3 Listener
I suffer from depression, (social) anxiety and various as-of-yet undiagnosed related mental health conditions. Following an unsuccessful WCA and MRN, I've had a fitnote from my GP to say my depression and anxiety are worsening. As such this should trigger a new WCA.

They say they need to see the fitnote in-person - whether that be on my phone or as a physical copy. I don't have the facility to print out my fitnote, and getting a physical copy would be well out of my way. Meanwhile actually going to the jobcentre would I know they're able to create a to-do list item that'd enable me to upload it, cause they have done in the past - but they've refused twice now, sticking to the above.

I've continued the complaint and reiterated my request.
What else can I do here? And as an aside, can I appeal my previous WCA decision by tribunal at the same time as starting the process for a new one? Thanks


Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,229 Disability Gamechanger
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    You can only appeal the Tribunal decision on error of law. To find that error you must first request the Statement of Reasons within 1 month of the date of the decision from Tribunal. When you receive that you'll need to find a specialst advisor to take a look to see if they can find the error in law. If they can't, they you won't be able to take it any further.

    For your new fit note, have you actually reported your health condition again? by "reporting a change of circumstances" clicking health condition and reporting it this way? This will then prompt you to report a fit note.

    If you were found fit for work by the Tribunal you will need to make sure your fit note includes the words a significant worsening of an existing condition or a new health condition.

    If you were previously found fit for work then you should get some expert advice this time because going through the process again using the same evidence you previously used could see another decision of fit for work. Start here. https://advicelocal.uk/welfare-benefits

    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • T_Watkins
    T_Watkins Community member Posts: 3 Listener
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    You can only appeal the Tribunal decision on error of law. To find that error you must first request the Statement of Reasons within 1 month of the date of the decision from Tribunal. When you receive that you'll need to find a specialst advisor to take a look to see if they can find the error in law. If they can't, they you won't be able to take it any further.

    For your new fit note, have you actually reported your health condition again? by "reporting a change of circumstances" clicking health condition and reporting it this way? This will then prompt you to report a fit note.

    If you were found fit for work by the Tribunal you will need to make sure your fit note includes the words a significant worsening of an existing condition or a new health condition.

    If you were previously found fit for work then you should get some expert advice this time because going through the process again using the same evidence you previously used could see another decision of fit for work. Start here. https://advicelocal.uk/welfare-benefits


    Thanks. To clarify, I've had the WCA and MRN, and intend to appeal those decisions through tribunal. As I understand it, it can only take into account the evidence DWP had at the time, is that correct?

    To your first question, yes - I have an entry on my journal "Report health change".
    The fitnote says specifically "worsening depression and anxiety".
    I'm also waiting on a referral to have a mental health assessment by the community mental health team, in order to get further, more specific diagnoses if applicable.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2023
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    T_Watkins said: Thanks. To clarify, I've had the WCA and MRN, and intend to appeal those decisions through tribunal. As I understand it, it can only take into account the evidence DWP had at the time, is that correct? 
    No that isn’t correct. The tribunal cannot take into account changes in your difficulties since the original decision but that doesn’t mean you can’t provide additional evidence. Any submission you make is itself evidence..
    T_Watkins said:, can I appeal my previous WCA decision by tribunal at the same time as starting the process for a new one? Thanks
    Yes you can but be aware if you report a change then any decision made by the tribunal will be a ‘closed period’ decision which will be replaced by whatever decision decision the DWP make about your entitlement from the date you report the change, 

    If you think a tribunal will give you an appropriate which would be still be appropriate to your circumstances now starting the whole process over again is probably not the best course of action.

    You may want to seek advice.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,229 Disability Gamechanger
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    The Tribunal will not take into consideration any worsening of condition since the assessment took place. If the evidence you have is related to how your conditions were then you can send that extra evidence.

    It’s not always a good idea to report a change of health condition before going through Tribunal stage because any new decision made on a new WCA will overrule the Tribunal decision. So if found fit for work again by DWP then the process starts again.

    Did you get expert advice before reporting a worsening of condition?
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • T_Watkins
    T_Watkins Community member Posts: 3 Listener
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    Did you get expert advice before reporting a worsening of condition?
    Thanks for all your answers. I didn't, no. The nature of my illnesses make it difficult to seek out any kind of help.
    The Tribunal will not take into consideration any worsening of condition since the assessment took place. If the evidence you have is related to how your conditions were then you can send that extra evidence.
    What else would constitute evidence in such a case? All I have so far "officially" is fitnotes for depression/depressive disorder/depression and anxiety. Beyond that, I've made lengthy, detailed Journal entries about my conditions in general and how they affect my ability to work, and I've some communiques with my GP covering the same. I'm also still waiting on this mental health assessment, and I expect I'll be diagnosed with at least one personality disorder.

    The Tribunal will not take into consideration any worsening of condition since the assessment took place. If the evidence you have is related to how your conditions were then you can send that extra evidence.
    The potential evidence I mention above, and anything else I'd have to say about it in general is essentially the same. Given it's a worsening of those same condition, how would this stack up? What if I were to be diagnosed with (a) personality disorder(s) following a mental health assessment? They've affected me my whole life.

    calcotti said:
    T_Watkins said: Thanks. To clarify, I've had the WCA and MRN, and intend to appeal those decisions through tribunal. As I understand it, it can only take into account the evidence DWP had at the time, is that correct? 
    No that isn’t correct. The tribunal cannot take into account changes in your difficulties since the original decision but that doesn’t mean you can’t provide additional evidence. Any submission you make is itself evidence..
    T_Watkins said:, can I appeal my previous WCA decision by tribunal at the same time as starting the process for a new one? Thanks
    Yes you can but be aware if you report a change then any decision made by the tribunal will be a ‘closed period’ decision which will be replaced by whatever decision decision the DWP make about your entitlement from the date you report the change, 

    If you think a tribunal will give you an appropriate which would be still be appropriate to your circumstances now starting the whole process over again is probably not the best course of action.

    You may want to seek advice.

    Part of the reason I reported a health change is because my conditions are indeed worsening - but beyond that, I'd been told by a Jobcentre advisor that the appeal by tribunal can take up to a year. In fairness, it's taken more than a year to get to this point since I sent off my WCA form, but I digress. As I understand it, in the mean time, I'd still be categorised as fit for work as far as the DWP's concerned, which entails expectations and commitments I can't live up to. Such a scenario would be a further detriment to my mental health.

    So, if I were to go through another WCA, and be found to have LCW/RA, would this apply only from the date of the reported health change, or from that of the first WCA/health change? Would I be able to rescind the health change, and be placed on reduced commitments while I await the tribunal?

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,229 Disability Gamechanger
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    Fit notes are not classed as evidence that you're not fit for work. I wouldn't advise leaving such messages on your journal, you need to send any future evidence to HMCTS (assuming you've already done the Mandatory Reconsideration?) If not then you need to request this first.

    Do you have someone to ask to write a supporting letter, if they know you well? Some people do this, some write diaries. Other evidence should be your anecdotal evidence.. a couple of real world examples of exactly what happened the last time you attempted each descriptor that applies to you. Include detailed information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were.

    As i advised, they won't take into consideration any worsening of condition. If in the future you have a diagnosis, this isn't classed as a change of circumstances and you can report this to HMCTS. Do be aware that it's not about a diagnosis.

    I don't know what the average waiting times are for WCA Tribunals. I only know that PIP Tribunals are taking several months, sometimes longer. However, even going down the worsening of condition group, it could still be as long as several months, sometimes longer before you have an assessment.

    Regarding your work commiments. You're classed as a job seeker until a decision on a WCA says otherwise. Therefore, even reporting a worsening of condition doesn't automatically entitle you to have work commiments turned off. It's a work coaches discretion whether to reduce or turn them off, some do and others don't. The same will apply while waiting for the Tribunal.

    Your worsening of condition will apply from the assessment period in which you reported the changes. Not from when you previously reported them.

    Have you had a look at the descriptors? If not then you can see them here.

    For LCW you need to score at least 15 points. Descriptors here. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/universal-credit-uc/uc-faq/limited-capability-for-work



    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
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