Help with PIP appeal tribunal decision 🙏🏻

jj65

Hi,

I am desperately searching for help this evening following a very difficult hour and a half PIP appeal tribunal hearing over the phone this afternoon. Please note - I DO NOT find it comfortable to speak on the phone so did ask for a paper hearing which was adjourned in December and the tribunal recommended me to opt for a telephone hearing instead so I reluctantly went along with this.

Background - I have struggled my whole life, my mental health became so poor in 2018 that it was effecting my daily life so I finally went to my GP to ask for help. I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression and prescribed antidepressants and CBT. I also had a diagnosis of Crohn's Disease and Fybromyalgia at this point. I then made my first application for PIP. This was rejected.

After trying 5 different antidepressants which didn't help and my mental health getting progressively worse I was finally referred for an autism assessment. I received my diagnosis in 2022 and a few months later also received my adhd diagnosis. Now I know why life has always been difficult for me.

Whilst waiting for my autism assessment in August 2021 I reapplied for a new PIP claim which was again rejected. Feeling strongly about this I asked for a mandatory reconsideration which was also rejected. Having by then had my diagnoses confirmed I applied to appeal the decision at a tribunal.

This whole process has took 19 months and been the most stressful time of my life. As I mentioned there was a paper tribunal hearing in December 2022 but that was adjourned and the panel recommended I opt for a telephone hearing and they also requested my full medical records from 2020 (which had never been requested before). I sent all of this in and having chased weekly for a new date, today has finally  been the telephone hearing. The tribunal's decision was to agree with the decision of the DWP and I am heartbroken.

I don't know where to go from here, I have no support, I feel like whilst the panel sounds like they're listening and understanding they really don't otherwise how could they reject my claim? I thought after all of the evidence they have from my medical records and diagnoses (and the fact they can see I have been struggling for years) they would understand so I thought I was well prepared - clearly not.

Can anyone help or point me in the right direction with regards to taking this further and putting a better case forward? I feel so strongly that I deserve this benefit but the difficulties I have in daily life are just not being taken seriously. This has destroyed me today I can't eat, my mind is completely overwhelmed - it is barbaric to put neurodivergent people through this!

I must also note in case it's helpful, that I was taken aback at the hearing today as the DWP representative asked me out if the blue if I go to watch my husband playing, I asked her what she meant (my husband is a professional footballer - not a rich famous one might I add) as I had never been asked about him before, what his job is etc and I haven't put that in any of my communications to them. She asked given his line of work do I go to watch him at his place of work. The judge actually told the rep that she didn't think the question was relevant and she retracted the question. I don't feel these comments where appropriate or relevant and I find it strange that they have taken it upon themselves to look in to my husbands name and occupation? My issue is also that people may think that because my husband has some success I can't possibly struggle too much that she needs PIP, or maybe I'm being too she's the?

To clarify - I don't work and don't have any income of my own except for carer's allowance for my son which I receive as he is on the middle date for DLA.

I hope someone can help - thank you!

poppy123456

You can't appeal a Tribunal decision just because you disagree. First you need to request the Statement Of Reasons (SOR) and Record of Proceedings (ROP) from HMCTS within 1 month of the date of the decision.

Once you receive those you need to find someone to take a look to see if they can find the error in law. If they can't then you can't proceed any further. It can be an extremely long process.

This link will help you find an advice agency near you but please be aware that not every advice agency will agree to look at the SOR and ROP. Welfare Rights or a Law centre are good places that may help you. https://advicelocal.uk/welfare-benefits

PIP isn't means tested so your husbands income will not be taken into consideration. You can be a millionaire and still be entitled to PIP, if you qualify. PIP isn't about a diagnosis, it's how those conditions affect you against the 12 PIP activities. If you don't meet the descriptors you won't score the points needed for an award. (I'm not saying you don't qualify because i don't know exactly how your conditions affect you) Though i have lots of knowledge about ASD because my daughter has it and i live with her. It's a huge spectrum and everyone is affected differently.

Have you ever got some expert advice to check that you definitely qualify? I'd advise you to do this.

jj65

@poppy123456 thank you for your reply.

I have never had any expert advice on my conditions other than the regular reviews I have with the adhd team and the info I was given after my diagnoses/assessments. Tbh I try to manage things myself because I have lived so long in that way but it's becoming difficult. I think I've realised now that I do have to get some professional help with this and meet with someone/an agency with experience in this field.

poppy123456

When i mentioned expert advice i meant for a PIP claim to check that it's possible to score enough of points needed for an award.

Was this Tribunal your first one or did you take it to Tribunal the first time as well? Remember for this claim you need to request the SOR and ROP from the Tribunal.

Hannah_Alumni

I'm so sorry you feel like you have no support @jj65

I see Poppy has given some great advice. If you need any further help our Helpline is able to support too (they do have an email address on their contact us page too!).

Can I ask, do you feel you have support from your GP? We can always help there if needed  

durhamjaide2001

Good luck I'm sorry you are having to go through tribunal as it can be scary for anyone to go through. I have been through the process as a kid and wouldn't wish it upon anyone 

jj65

@poppy123456 hi poppy no I didn't take the first app to the tribunal just an mr and then I gave up

jj65

@Hannah_Scope
Thanks Hannah, my GP is kind (when I can manage to get an appointment or speak to her) but it's been myself that has had to basically tell her what I want/need throughout this whole journey. I think they're overworked, over capacity and not trained well enough in neurodivergence like most people.

Hannah_Alumni

It's lovely to hear they are kind Have you thought about asking your GP to refer you to a neurodivergence specialist? 

jj65

@Hannah_Scope hi, I've never heard of this? What exactly do they do? 😊

Hannah_Alumni

They mainly specialise in different forms of therapy for those with a neurodivergent diagnosis. I can see you have had CBT, it would be worth speaking to your GP but you can refer yourself through the NHS website too. 

The National Autistic Society also has a lot of information about Autism in Adults which you may find useful to read.

FrankV

I cannot offer any sound advice, but I can concur with how you feel. With the PIP you must not give up and make sure you complete the form as best as you can. The PIP application form questions are mainly aimed at physical disabilities, only a very small section is designated to mental health. Your success is based purely on your scores achieved so be as specific as you can with your answers and keep appealing. You are also entitled to appeal any outcome from a court or tribunal, so don't just accept a loss without fighting back. It is really difficult, and takes forever, but don't give up. It is also extremely hard to find professional legal advice, so make sure you do thorough research, but you should succeed if you do it properly. Don't give up!

poppy123456

FrankV said:

 The PIP application form questions are mainly aimed at physical disabilities, only a very small section is designated to mental health.

That's not correct at all. I can think of 9 out of 10 daily living acitivities that are aimed at mental health and 1 mobility activity.

FrankV

I do hope that I have not offended you. Certainly.i can also think of more ways in which mental health affects a person's daily lifestyle, but I was referring to the PIP form which is very poorly designed. Since their criteria is based on point scoring, if your answers don't meet the relevant points then you will not succeed. I was merely trying to offer you an explanation, not on anyway trying to point fingers. I am also a mental health sufferer and believe me when I say I know what it feels like when people keep telling you that you are incorrect etc. I'm on your side.

poppy123456

FrankV said:

I do hope that I have not offended you.

Not at all. The PIP2 form refers to the PIP descriptors, so i can't see that it's not related to those with mental health.

The biggest problem that a lot of people have (myself included) is they manage daily life in the way they always have, without any second thoughts. It's their way of life, which to them is normal. When it comes to writing down the difficulties you have it's extremely difficult.

I manage my claims and my daughters and i always find my own forms more challenging to fill out than hers. I see the way her conditions affect her in a different way than she does and she doesn't claim for any physical conditions.

jj65

@FrankV thank you for your response I agree with what you have said about the application form and entire process. I believe most ND people think the application needs to be amended to be easier for us to complete and for our issues to be taken in to account better. At present not many people understand but hopefully in time  that will change for the better!

L_Volunteer

It would be helpful if most things were more ND friendly @ji65. Please don't hesitate to let us know if there's anything else we can do to support you 

ckck1512

When dwp asked if you go to your husband’s football matches it was probably because you’ve said that you suffer with anxiety, football’ matches are usually noisy and crowded places so if you’re attending them then dwp will assume that either you can’t really be suffering or if you’ are suffering then it’s partly your own fault by attending such places when you don’t really need to