PIP claim and OCD — Scope | Disability forum
If we become concerned about you or anyone else while using one of our services, we will act in line with our safeguarding policy and procedures. This may involve sharing this information with relevant authorities to ensure we comply with our policies and legal obligations.

Find out how to let us know if you're concerned about another member's safety.
Please read our updated community house rules and community guidelines.

PIP claim and OCD

anyclearer
anyclearer Community member Posts: 13 Connected
edited March 2023 in PIP, DLA, and AA
Hi, this is my first time posting. I have not been able to find much information on claiming PIP for ocd and found out today that the claim I made last October was unsuccessful. I have asked for a copy of the assessment report and am awaiting the letter from DWP so I can see what they have said. I will be asking for a MR as I firmly believe I am eligible for at least the lower rate of daily living allowance. I don’t know how much clearer I can be on my condition and how it effects me everyday and tried my best to make it relevant to the questions on the assessment form as well answering the questions during my telephone assessment. I had my mum on the phone call as well and she had input into some of the questions. 

My main question would be does anyone have similar experience of being successful in the MR when claiming for ocd?

thanks in advance 😊
«1

Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 52,180 Disability Gamechanger
    The most likely outcome of any MR is the decision will remain the same, only 23% of them change. PIP isn't awarded based on any diagnosis, so comparing yourself to someone else with the same condition isn't going to help. Whether there's any entitlement will totally depend on how your conditions affect you.


    For the MR you should put the request in writing stating where and why you think you should have scored those points. Include a couple of real world examples of exactly what happened the last time you attempted each descriptor that applies to you.

    The assessment report isn't needed to request the MR as all it causes is a distraction.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • nasturtium
    nasturtium Community member Posts: 376 Pioneering
    edited March 2023
    Hello anyclearer
    To add to Poppys advice above you are the best person to describe your problems completing the 12 PIP activities Reliably.
    It is advised to write a detailed letter for your MR and although the success rate is only 23% at MR your detailed MR letter will go towards helping you if you need to go to the appeal stage because it will be used as evidence by the tribunal panel to support your claim.
    So I mentioned the word "Relaibly" and that is a very important word in PIP because you need to complete all the PIP activities reliably for no award to be given. It is upto you to detail why you cannot do the activities that are affected by your condition Relaibly https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably As you can see from that link you need to do all of the activities safely, repeatedly, reasonable time period and to an acceptable standard. So if it is not safe for you to do one of the activities safely then you need to explain why you cannot do it safely according to the activities descriptors.
    Ok so lets take a activity and see how possibly Obsessive compulsive disorder https://pipinfo.net/conditions/obsessive-compulsive-disorder might fit to the "Relaibly" information above and how you could score points for that activity.
    Lets take the Preparing food activity. If you cannot complete that activity in a reasonable time or to an acceptable standard because of your OCD you have to go through rituals or are obsesive about things being clean etc (I do not know your condition only you know this) then you need to explain for example in detail what those rituals are, what are the consiquences of those rituals, dose it take you a long time to prepare a meal, have you burnt you food because of your OCD, have you hurt yourself because of your OCD if yes then you cannot do the activity either safely, in a reasonable time or to an acceptable standard. Here is a good example from case law from a upper tribunal decision for activity 6 Dressing and undressing and how you can score points for this activity with PIP but the advise on this link can apply to all of the PIP activities https://www.a1benefitsupport.com/group-file-28-ocd-can-get-points
    This is some basic advice to get you started with your MR letter.
    Hope this has been of assistance
    Nasturtium

    How to challenge a PIP award that has been reduced at Review https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/696285#Comment_696285
  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Community member Posts: 2,555 Disability Gamechanger
    OCD has such a wide ranging spectrum that it's difficult to know which practical descriptors your OCD fits into.

    I live with severe OCD, major daily impact, and couldn't score any points for it due to the way the descriptors are worded. 

    I did score a lot of points for social issues instead though, which I wasn't expecting when I first put the claim in.  I'd say the OCD has a much bigger impact on my daily life than the social issues do.
  • MH2023
    MH2023 Community member Posts: 5 Listener
    OCD has such a wide ranging spectrum that it's difficult to know which practical descriptors your OCD fits into.

    I live with severe OCD, major daily impact, and couldn't score any points for it due to the way the descriptors are worded. 

    I did score a lot of points for social issues instead though, which I wasn't expecting when I first put the claim in.  I'd say the OCD has a much bigger impact on my daily life than the social issues do.
    Out of interest which descriptors did not score you for OCD, where you felt they should? There may be a misunderstanding of the descriptors. 
  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Community member Posts: 2,555 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2023
    MH2023 said:
    OCD has such a wide ranging spectrum that it's difficult to know which practical descriptors your OCD fits into.

    I live with severe OCD, major daily impact, and couldn't score any points for it due to the way the descriptors are worded. 

    I did score a lot of points for social issues instead though, which I wasn't expecting when I first put the claim in.  I'd say the OCD has a much bigger impact on my daily life than the social issues do.
    Out of interest which descriptors did not score you for OCD, where you felt they should? There may be a misunderstanding of the descriptors. 
    Well I'd expect stereotypical contamination & harm OCD to score highly for food prep as the main one.  But it doesn't because technically I could handle raw food, and technically I could hold a knife to peel something.  In reality I can't handle raw items without getting in a complete panic state and I can't handle knives due to the extreme fear of injuring myself with one.  However, because there is no experience of injuring myself like that, it doesn't count as a functional limitation for PIP.  (I did try to explain the mental torture as best I could).  I know of at least 3 other people with very similar OCD regarding food prep who also couldn't score for this descriptor so it's not specific to me.

    I will add, I'm also agoraphobic, but as I wasn't totally housebound at the time (am now), and as I cannot go out WITH another person due to the social issues, I also couldn't score anything for the Going Out descriptor.  Personally I think they should be asking things like - Can you get to a shop or a supermarket?  Can you get to a Doctor or a hospital?  Can you get on a bus or in a Taxi?  It should be a 'meaningful' journey to gauge functional limitation, instead of just a few hundred metres outside your front door.

    Personally, I don't believe the descriptors have enough scope to accurately convey functional limitation.  I was awarded at tribunal, enhanced daily living (only expected standard), but that was purely for social issues and malnutrition rather than the OCD & agoraphobia that I'd initially applied for. 
  • anyclearer
    anyclearer Community member Posts: 13 Connected
    Hello anyclearer
    To add to Poppys advice above you are the best person to describe your problems completing the 12 PIP activities Reliably.
    It is advised to write a detailed letter for your MR and although the success rate is only 23% at MR your detailed MR letter will go towards helping you if you need to go to the appeal stage because it will be used as evidence by the tribunal panel to support your claim.
    So I mentioned the word "Relaibly" and that is a very important word in PIP because you need to complete all the PIP activities reliably for no award to be given. It is upto you to detail why you cannot do the activities that are affected by your condition Relaibly https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably As you can see from that link you need to do all of the activities safely, repeatedly, reasonable time period and to an acceptable standard. So if it is not safe for you to do one of the activities safely then you need to explain why you cannot do it safely according to the activities descriptors.
    Ok so lets take a activity and see how possibly Obsessive compulsive disorder https://pipinfo.net/conditions/obsessive-compulsive-disorder might fit to the "Relaibly" information above and how you could score points for that activity.
    Lets take the Preparing food activity. If you cannot complete that activity in a reasonable time or to an acceptable standard because of your OCD you have to go through rituals or are obsesive about things being clean etc (I do not know your condition only you know this) then you need to explain for example in detail what those rituals are, what are the consiquences of those rituals, dose it take you a long time to prepare a meal, have you burnt you food because of your OCD, have you hurt yourself because of your OCD if yes then you cannot do the activity either safely, in a reasonable time or to an acceptable standard. Here is a good example from case law from a upper tribunal decision for activity 6 Dressing and undressing and how you can score points for this activity with PIP but the advise on this link can apply to all of the PIP activities https://www.a1benefitsupport.com/group-file-28-ocd-can-get-points
    This is some basic advice to get you started with your MR letter.
    Hope this has been of assistance
    Nasturtium

    Many thanks for this information, it is extremely useful. I am still waiting for the actual report and letter so I am unsure what points I scored, the girl on the phone just said I had not achieved many points so didn’t qualify. The main areas I expected to score points were on the prepping food, washing and dressing. 

    Basically I cannot handle raw meat and therefore my husband does all of the cooking. If I were to do it it would take me at least a couple of hours to simply prep the food let alone cook it due to fear of contamination and having to carry out hand washing rituals constantly, even if I am prepping the non meat elements. I made this clear in both my form and my phone assessment.

    washing is a big one for me, I spend at least an hour in the shower on a good day,  a bad day a lot longer until someone stops me and even then I am distressed. I have rituals to perform and other mental obsessions that lead to further compulsive behaviour. I have to shower and brush teeth eat. when I come home from work and put my clothes in a separate room from clothes I wear at home, major contamination fears here. I cannot do anything until I am ‘clean’. It takes me two hour to get ready in the morning and that is without putting on make up or showering, it would be significantly longer if I did those things too.



  • nasturtium
    nasturtium Community member Posts: 376 Pioneering
    edited March 2023

    Basically I cannot handle raw meat and therefore my husband does all of the cooking.
    Thanks for the reply.
    I would like to give you a little bit of extra advice and please do not think I am trying to undermine your condition or say you do not have problems because by what you have written you do have problems.
    My advice is to play devils advocate with your own evidence. Pretend you are the tribunal judge or the DWP Decision Maker and think what would they say about my evidence to justify not giving me the points I am entitled to.
    For example you said "Basically I cannot handle raw meat and therefore my husband does all of the cooking." The activity of preparing a meal is a meal made from fresh ingredients for one person and that person is the claimant. So the DWP or Tribunal Judge might say:-
    Do you have meat for every meal?
    Can you wear Disposable Gloves if you had to prepare meat? (Possible aid 2 points)
    And so on...
    Saying " I cannot handle raw meat and therefore my husband does all of the cooking" explains nothing about your problems and why you cannot handle meat so you will get Zero points.
    If you can wear disposable gloves then say something like "I can only handle meat with the aid of disposable gloves because...." the (because) word is very important then explain in detail why you cannot handle meat without the aid of disposable gloves, how does it make you feel physically and mentally (also explain how doing the whole activity makes you feel)
    This could work with the descriptor for Activity 1 Preparing Food "Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points" https://pipinfo.net/activities/preparing-food
    I am not saying the above is correct because I do not know your problem and I am not saying include what I have written above because it is only a hyperthetical made up scenario just to give you the idea on how to set things out.
    Do not mention the word "good day" because the DWP will jump on that and use it against you. You need to explain the problems you have for the majority of days. A good idea would be to keep a detailed daily diary for seven to ten days detailing the problems you have each day doing the daily living activitities according to the descriptors. You can include this with your MR letter as supporting evidence showing the problems you have daily.
    Your husband can give a supporting letter explaining his observations and how he helps you and why he helps you and what would happen if you did not have help.
    Just a little advice
    Hope this has been helpful
    Nasturtium


    How to challenge a PIP award that has been reduced at Review https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/696285#Comment_696285
  • anyclearer
    anyclearer Community member Posts: 13 Connected

    Basically I cannot handle raw meat and therefore my husband does all of the cooking.
    Thanks for the reply.
    I would like to give you a little bit of extra advice and please do not think I am trying to undermine your condition or say you do not have problems because by what you have written you do have problems.
    My advice is to play devils advocate with your own evidence. Pretend you are the tribunal judge or the DWP Decision Maker and think what would they say about my evidence to justify not giving me the points I am entitled to.
    For example you said "Basically I cannot handle raw meat and therefore my husband does all of the cooking." The activity of preparing a meal is a meal made from fresh ingredients for one person and that person is the claimant. So the DWP or Tribunal Judge might say:-
    Do you have meat for every meal?
    Can you wear Disposable Gloves if you had to prepare meat? (Possible aid 2 points)
    And so on...
    Saying " I cannot handle raw meat and therefore my husband does all of the cooking" explains nothing about your problems and why you cannot handle meat so you will get Zero points.
    If you can wear disposable gloves then say something like "I can only handle meat with the aid of disposable gloves because...." the (because) word is very important then explain in detail why you cannot handle meat without the aid of disposable gloves, how does it make you feel physically and mentally (also explain how doing the whole activity makes you feel)
    This could work with the descriptor for Activity 1 Preparing Food "Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points" https://pipinfo.net/activities/preparing-food
    I am not saying the above is correct because I do not know your problem and I am not saying include what I have written above because it is only a hyperthetical made up scenario just to give you the idea on how to set things out.
    Do not mention the word "good day" because the DWP will jump on that and use it against you. You need to explain the problems you have for the majority of days. A good idea would be to keep a detailed daily diary for seven to ten days detailing the problems you have each day doing the daily living activitities according to the descriptors. You can include this with your MR letter as supporting evidence showing the problems you have daily.
    Your husband can give a supporting letter explaining his observations and how he helps you and why he helps you and what would happen if you did not have help.
    Just a little advice
    Hope this has been helpful
    Nasturtium


    Yea I understand what you mean, however, even if I was to use disposable gloves, the fear of touching the outside of the gloves when removing them would lead to the same rituals etc if that makes sense, so even the use of an aid does not help, I simply
    cannot do it as it causes too much distress and takes far far too long. Would this not mean it would fall under the ‘cannot prepare a meal’ descriptor? Or would it not because I physically can, but mentally not
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 52,180 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2023
    For descriptor 1F, it's not just about preparing the food or cooking, it's about preparing and cooking it. A claimant can only satisfy 1F if they can neither prepare nor cook food (even with assistance or supervision). If they cannot do one of these, even with assistance or supervision, but can do the other then one of the other descriptors will apply.

    The rest of the descriptors for this activity considers your ability to prepare or cook.

    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • anyclearer
    anyclearer Community member Posts: 13 Connected
    For descriptor 1F, it's not just about preparing the food or cooking, it's about preparing and cooking it. A claimant can only satisfy 1F if they can neither prepare nor cook food (even with assistance or supervision). If they cannot do one of these, even with assistance or supervision, but can do the other then one of the other descriptors will apply.

    The rest of the descriptors for this activity considers your ability to prepare or cook.

    Ah ok I understand what you are saying, thank you. I suppose then it is not enough to say that because of my rituals of constant cleaning etc I cannot physically cook the meal because my mind and time is taken up with rituals. In the past I have burned food a lot by over cooking it to make sure it is cooked to avoid food poisoning, but I doubt that would count and would probably be looked on as poor cooking more than anything 
  • nasturtium
    nasturtium Community member Posts: 376 Pioneering
    edited March 2023
    I suppose then it is not enough to say that because of my rituals of constant cleaning etc I cannot physically cook the meal because my mind and time is taken up with rituals.
    Ask yourself these questions for each PIP Activity:-
    Describe your rituals in detail when you are doing a task for preparing a meal. For example do you have rituals when washing food?
    Describe those rituals
    What would happen if you did not do those rituals?
    How many times do you need to do those rituals before you have completed the task?
    Describe how it makes you feel emotionaly and mentaly?
    How long does it take you to complete the task?
    Compare how long it takes your husband to do the same task and how long it takes you.
    In the past I have burned food a lot by over cooking it to make sure it is cooked to avoid food poisoning, but I doubt that would count and would probably be looked on as poor cooking more than anything 
    If you over cook food because of your mental health condition then you need to describe why you over cook food in detail because over cooking food because of a mental health conditon would show that you cannot cook food "to an acceptable standard" (Remember the word "Reliably") but you need to associate this with a health condition or the Decision Maker will just think you cannot cook. Can you describe in detail the last time you burnt food and why that food was burnt?
    You could include in your MR letter under Activity 1:-
    "I have Obsessive compulsive disorder and cannot cook a simple meal to an acceptable standard because.."  Remember there are two sections to this PIP Activity,  Preparing and Cooking.
    then go into detail on why you cannot cook food to an acceptable standard. Describe the last time you burnt food, why did it happen, who witnessed it etc..
    Remember the four criterias in the important word "Reliably":-
    "to an acceptable standard"
    "safely”
    “repeatedly”
    “reasonable time period”
    You need to be descriptive even if you think it is silly and things went wrong it will show you cannot do that task but you need to link it to your condition.
    Hope that helps
    Nasturtium
    How to challenge a PIP award that has been reduced at Review https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/696285#Comment_696285
  • anyclearer
    anyclearer Community member Posts: 13 Connected
    I suppose then it is not enough to say that because of my rituals of constant cleaning etc I cannot physically cook the meal because my mind and time is taken up with rituals.
    Ask yourself these questions for each PIP Activity:-
    Describe your rituals in detail when you are doing a task for preparing a meal. For example do you have rituals when washing food?
    Describe those rituals
    What would happen if you did not do those rituals?
    How many times do you need to do those rituals before you have completed the task?
    Describe how it makes you feel emotionaly and mentaly?
    How long does it take you to complete the task?
    Compare how long it takes your husband to do the same task and how long it takes you.
    In the past I have burned food a lot by over cooking it to make sure it is cooked to avoid food poisoning, but I doubt that would count and would probably be looked on as poor cooking more than anything 
    If you over cook food because of your mental health condition then you need to describe why you over cook food in detail because over cooking food because of a mental health conditon would show that you cannot cook food "to an acceptable standard" (Remember the word "Reliably") but you need to associate this with a health condition or the Decision Maker will just think you cannot cook. Can you describe in detail the last time you burnt food and why that food was burnt?
    You could include in your MR letter under Activity 1:-
    "I have Obsessive compulsive disorder and cannot cook a simple meal to an acceptable standard because.."  Remember there are two sections to this PIP Activity,  Preparing and Cooking.
    then go into detail on why you cannot cook food to an acceptable standard. Describe the last time you burnt food, why did it happen, who witnessed it etc..
    Remember the four criterias in the important word "Reliably":-
    "to an acceptable standard"
    "safely”
    “repeatedly”
    “reasonable time period”
    You need to be descriptive even if you think it is silly and things went wrong it will show you cannot do that task but you need to link it to your condition.
    Hope that helps
    Nasturtium
    Thank you so so much I really appreciate this help, I hadn’t realised really really specific I needed to be in order to fit the criteria so they understand my needs, thank you
  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Community member Posts: 2,555 Disability Gamechanger
    I suppose then it is not enough to say that because of my rituals of constant cleaning etc I cannot physically cook the meal because my mind and time is taken up with rituals.
    Ask yourself these questions for each PIP Activity:-
    Describe your rituals in detail when you are doing a task for preparing a meal. For example do you have rituals when washing food?
    Describe those rituals
    What would happen if you did not do those rituals?
    How many times do you need to do those rituals before you have completed the task?
    Describe how it makes you feel emotionaly and mentaly?
    How long does it take you to complete the task?
    Compare how long it takes your husband to do the same task and how long it takes you.
    In the past I have burned food a lot by over cooking it to make sure it is cooked to avoid food poisoning, but I doubt that would count and would probably be looked on as poor cooking more than anything 
    If you over cook food because of your mental health condition then you need to describe why you over cook food in detail because over cooking food because of a mental health conditon would show that you cannot cook food "to an acceptable standard" (Remember the word "Reliably") but you need to associate this with a health condition or the Decision Maker will just think you cannot cook. Can you describe in detail the last time you burnt food and why that food was burnt?
    You could include in your MR letter under Activity 1:-
    "I have Obsessive compulsive disorder and cannot cook a simple meal to an acceptable standard because.."  Remember there are two sections to this PIP Activity,  Preparing and Cooking.
    then go into detail on why you cannot cook food to an acceptable standard. Describe the last time you burnt food, why did it happen, who witnessed it etc..
    Remember the four criterias in the important word "Reliably":-
    "to an acceptable standard"
    "safely”
    “repeatedly”
    “reasonable time period”
    You need to be descriptive even if you think it is silly and things went wrong it will show you cannot do that task but you need to link it to your condition.
    Hope that helps
    Nasturtium
    Thank you so so much I really appreciate this help, I hadn’t realised really really specific I needed to be in order to fit the criteria so they understand my needs, thank you
    Please do let us know how you get on with the MR (and, if necessary, tribunal).  I keep an eye out for OCD PIP topics as it does seem to be one where a lot of people slip through the gaps in the descriptors.
  • Becky93
    Becky93 Community member Posts: 54 Pioneering
    You will need to give more details, but I was successful last week at tribunal for PIP on OCD. I was awarded the enhanced rate on daily living activities and standard rate on mobility. To give you an idea of how big a turn around you can get, the DWP awarded me 0 points on assessment and mandatory reconsideration. The tribunal awarded me 32 points on daily living activity and 10 points on mobility, so I wouldn't get disheartened by what the DWP say, as imo their people simply aren't qualified to deal with cases like OCD.

    I had pointed out to them multiple times they are not following their own regulations, in particular Regulation 4 2(A) with regards to being able to do the activities in a "reasonable time period" defined as no more than twice as a long as a person without a health condition affecting the activity, and they continually straight up ignored me, simply stating I could complete the activities unaided.

    I would recommend looking at Citizen's Advice on how each descriptor might apply to you. There is a lot of information out there too from Googling OCD and PIP. If you can point to exactly where in the regulations they are not applying the law correctly, you will likely have a strong case, especially if you can provide case law alongside it. From the internet it's quite well known if any part of Regulation 4 2(A) applies to you, which will be common with OCD, you will very likely have to go to tribunal as the DWP assessors simply don't apply this.

    If I'm honest I would just submit a mandatory reconsideration pretty quickly. The chances of them overturning in your favour are minimal, there's not much point overthinking it. I would be more preparing/thinking about how you appeal which will come after the mandatory reconsideration. Having some sort of medical document supporting your case from doctor/psychiatrist will help, having a letter from someone who lives with you may help too. Also a list of medications to manage your condition, as these can be very telling in the severity of your condition.

    Here are some useful links:

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/fill-in-form-pip/3-prepare-and-cook-meal/

    Will really help breakdown if descriptors might apply to you, as the basic ones you normally see are really poorly written with regards to mental health conditions

    https://www.a1benefitsupport.com/group-file-28-ocd-can-get-points

    Could be of major help depending exactly how your OCD is affecting you.


  • nasturtium
    nasturtium Community member Posts: 376 Pioneering
    edited March 2023
    Becky93 said:
    If I'm honest I would just submit a mandatory reconsideration pretty quickly. The chances of them overturning in your favour are minimal, there's not much point overthinking it.

    Hello Becky93
    With respect I personally would disagree with that statement. I would just like to point out like I have done on my previous post that in my opinion if you put in a detailed and accurate Mandatory Reconsideration letter this will also be used at a tribunal for evidence so it is worth putting the time and effort into compiling a comprihensive and detailed MR. If it is refused then you can then move onto appeal where the DWP will review your claim again by another decision maker and if you have put in your time to send a detailed MR there might be a greater chance the DWP will put forward an "Offer" that you can accept and if you are happy with the "offer" then your tribunal appeal will be cancelled. If you are not happy with the offer you can still accept the offer and wait until it is in payment then start a fresh tribunal appeal after the offer is in payment and you have had the "offer" award letter.

    How to challenge a PIP award that has been reduced at Review https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/696285#Comment_696285
  • anyclearer
    anyclearer Community member Posts: 13 Connected
    Thank you everyone for all of your advice, it really is a mine field!!!

    can I just ask, when I phoned to ask for the assessment report and they told me I had not been successful they said to wait until I get my letter and the report and then if i was to have a MR they will sort it out over the phone, does this mean they will just speak to me on the phone rather then want written request or can I do both?
  • nasturtium
    nasturtium Community member Posts: 376 Pioneering
    edited March 2023
    Thank you everyone for all of your advice, it really is a mine field!!!

    can I just ask, when I phoned to ask for the assessment report and they told me I had not been successful they said to wait until I get my letter and the report and then if i was to have a MR they will sort it out over the phone, does this mean they will just speak to me on the phone rather then want written request or can I do both?
    Dont phone them for your MR because as soon as you phone them you have told them to go ahead with the MR without any further written verbal evidence from you. Just take your time and plan out your letter. You are supposed to send your MR back withing 4 week but with good reason you can do a MR for a claim within 13 months so do not panic and plan out your letter. Use your computer and word processing software to make it easy to compile and edit. Follow the advice here and write a detailed letter then post it off with proof of postage (which is free from the post office). I would NOT phone them to start you MR. You cannot do an MR until you have had the decision letter so you have time to plan while you are waiting. Remember the MR is about the problems you have with the activities. To not get caught in the trap of critisising the assesment or the decision maker because that will not get you PIP.
    Kind Regards
    Nasturtium
    How to challenge a PIP award that has been reduced at Review https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/696285#Comment_696285
  • Becky93
    Becky93 Community member Posts: 54 Pioneering
    Becky93 said:
    If I'm honest I would just submit a mandatory reconsideration pretty quickly. The chances of them overturning in your favour are minimal, there's not much point overthinking it.

    Hello Becky93
    With respect I personally would disagree with that statement. I would just like to point out like I have done on my previous post that in my opinion if you put in a detailed and accurate Mandatory Reconsideration letter this will also be used at a tribunal for evidence so it is worth putting the time and effort into compiling a comprihensive and detailed MR. If it is refused then you can then move onto appeal where the DWP will review your claim again by another decision maker and if you have put in your time to send a detailed MR there might be a greater chance the DWP will put forward an "Offer" that you can accept and if you are happy with the "offer" then your tribunal appeal will be cancelled. If you are not happy with the offer you can still accept the offer and wait until it is in payment then start a fresh tribunal appeal after the offer is in payment and you have had the "offer" award letter.

    That maybe true for some health conditions, but for OCD I think you're basically just wasting your time putting lots of effort into Mandatory Reconsideration. The wait list for a tribunal is so long, that you really want to just get on that wait list as soon as possible. If the DWP won't judge you on the parameters you are asking to be judged upon as they don't recognise them you have got no chance of them changing the decision on mandatory reconsideration, you need someone with a more legal background to judge your case.

    I spent ages on mine, and the result I got back not only still awarded me 0 points, the summary was virtually the same as the original assessment. Like if you compared the two conclusions you would think they were based off one another, as the structure was identical, some phrases had changed, but what was being said was identical. It did not read like someone who had even read a word of what I was saying, just someone arbitrarily ticking boxes and not understanding the law with regards to how OCD can apply to PIP, and from research online this is standard for the DWP with regards to OCD and PIP.
  • nasturtium
    nasturtium Community member Posts: 376 Pioneering
    edited March 2023
    Becky93 said:
    That maybe true for some health conditions, but for OCD I think you're basically just wasting your time putting lots of effort into Mandatory Reconsideration. The wait list for a tribunal is so long, that you really want to just get on that wait list as soon as possible. If the DWP won't judge you on the parameters you are asking to be judged upon as they don't recognise them you have got no chance of them changing the decision on mandatory reconsideration, you need someone with a more legal background to judge your case.

    I spent ages on mine, and the result I got back not only still awarded me 0 points, the summary was virtually the same as the original assessment. Like if you compared the two conclusions you would think they were based off one another, as the structure was identical, some phrases had changed, but what was being said was identical. It did not read like someone who had even read a word of what I was saying, just someone arbitrarily ticking boxes and not understanding the law with regards to how OCD can apply to PIP, and from research online this is standard for the DWP with regards to OCD and PIP.
    You said "That maybe true for some health conditions"
    Many people have got PIP without having to goto tribunal for OCD. It is the quality of your verbal evidence that you put on your PIP2 form for that counts towards getting an award or not.
    Again I will say that if you put in a detailed MR letter it will be used in evidence in a Tribunal.
    You said "I spent ages on mine, and the result I got back not only still awarded me 0 points, the summary was virtually the same as the original assessment."
    Did you not factor in that the reason why the Tribunal gave you 32 points was because you "spent ages" on your MR letter and they used that to help them make there judgement?

    How to challenge a PIP award that has been reduced at Review https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/696285#Comment_696285
  • Becky93
    Becky93 Community member Posts: 54 Pioneering
    Becky93 said:
    That maybe true for some health conditions, but for OCD I think you're basically just wasting your time putting lots of effort into Mandatory Reconsideration. The wait list for a tribunal is so long, that you really want to just get on that wait list as soon as possible. If the DWP won't judge you on the parameters you are asking to be judged upon as they don't recognise them you have got no chance of them changing the decision on mandatory reconsideration, you need someone with a more legal background to judge your case.

    I spent ages on mine, and the result I got back not only still awarded me 0 points, the summary was virtually the same as the original assessment. Like if you compared the two conclusions you would think they were based off one another, as the structure was identical, some phrases had changed, but what was being said was identical. It did not read like someone who had even read a word of what I was saying, just someone arbitrarily ticking boxes and not understanding the law with regards to how OCD can apply to PIP, and from research online this is standard for the DWP with regards to OCD and PIP.
    Again I will say that if you put in a detailed MR letter it will be used in evidence in a Tribunal.
    You said "I spent ages on mine, and the result I got back not only still awarded me 0 points, the summary was virtually the same as the original assessment."
    Did you not factor in that the reason why the Tribunal gave you 32 points was because you "spent ages" on your MR letter and they used that to help them make there judgement?
    The same details were also in my appeal, many of them were in my original claim. Indeed the only real difference is I literally spelled out the regulations and case law starting with mandatory reconsideration, everything actually about my condition had been submitted from the very start. I don't see how it would have made a difference if I'd done that at the mandatory reconsideration or appeal. Indeed you could argue it wouldn't have made a difference even if I never mentioned them, given all I'm really doing then is stating the law the judge at the tribunal would be expected to apply anyway. The main reason I mentioned them was in the hope the DWP would actually read what I am saying and realise their error, but like I say they never even acknowledged properly what I was saying with regards to the law, let and out apply it.

Brightness

Complete our feedback form and tell us how we can make the community better.

Do you need advice on your energy costs?


Scope’s Disability Energy Support service is open to any disabled household in England or Wales in which one or more disabled people live. You can get free advice from an expert adviser on managing energy debt, switching tariffs, contacting your supplier and more. Find out more information by visiting our
Disability Energy Support webpage.