Appointee for Daughter: Tribunal Appeal hearing this week for LCWRA — Scope | Disability forum
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Appointee for Daughter: Tribunal Appeal hearing this week for LCWRA

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dynz
dynz Community member Posts: 16 Listener
edited March 2023 in Universal Credit (UC)
Hi, I'm my adult daughter DWP Appointee. I want a bit of advice regarding a Tribunal Appeal hearing this week for LCWRA. There has been a development over the weekend, and I want to know what the impact will be.

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  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,146 Disability Gamechanger
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    What advice would you like?
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • dynz
    dynz Community member Posts: 16 Listener
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    My daughter applied for LCWRA in September 2020. The DWP messed her about until July 2020 when they assessed her. The assessment took two hours and really upset my daughter. The decision was that my 41. Year old daughter, who has a spinal disability, a heart issue, suffers regular severe migraines, has zero sense of smell, is autistic, cant secure emplhment, and even if she cant maitain it because of her migrained, is only entitled to LCW.
    I issued a MR. The MR decision was that the assessment decision of LCW is correct.
    I issued an Appeal, which is listed for 30th March.
    On Friday I noticed something in the DWP bundle. The sequence is;
    1, Assessment report.
    2, Assessment decision - LCWRA awarded. (Not a typo since there is nonsense about a Fit Note not being provided, so LCWRA can't be backdated for 18 months)
    3, Letter advising LCW awarded.

    Q; What is going to happen at the Appeal?

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,146 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2023
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    Just to confirm i've read this correctly. You've seen the assessment report and in there it recommends LCWRA? When the decision was made it was LCW? is that correct?
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Alex_Alumni
    Alex_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,562 Disability Gamechanger
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    Hello and welcome @dynz and thanks for reaching out with your query, just to make it clearer and easier to find I've popped it into our UC category and edited the title. 

    Let us know if you need a hand with anything else in the meantime :) 
    Online Community Coordinator
    Scope

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  • dynz
    dynz Community member Posts: 16 Listener
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    Yes, the assessment decision which we were provided with when we appealed, was; LCWRA AWARDED. The letter informing us of the assessment decision was; LCW AWARDED. The letter informing us of the MR decision was; LCW AWARD DECISION UNCHANGED.

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,146 Disability Gamechanger
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    I'm sorry but i'm completely confused and these comments make no sense. First you say this.
    dynz said:
    Yes, the assessment decision which we were provided with when we appealed, was; LCWRA AWARDED.
    Then this.
    dynz said:
    The letter informing us of the assessment decision was; LCW AWARDED.
    If what you're saying is the assessment report recommended LCWRA then that's not the decision, it's a recommendation only. Whilst they usually go with the report, they have been known to go against it, which seems like what they've done here.

    The Tribunal will just continue.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • dynz
    dynz Community member Posts: 16 Listener
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    An assessor person recommended LCWRA. That same person then issued a decision for LCW. 
  • AtlasShoulders
    AtlasShoulders Community member Posts: 42 Connected
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    dynz said:
    An assessor person recommended LCWRA. That same person then issued a decision for LCW. 
    May I ask what the outcome was?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,146 Disability Gamechanger
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    dynz said:
    An assessor person recommended LCWRA. That same person then issued a decision for LCW. 

    That really makes no sense because the assessor doesn't make decisions, they make recommendations only. Only a decision maker can make a decision.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • dynz
    dynz Community member Posts: 16 Listener
    edited August 2023
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    I fully agree this decision of LCW makes no sense at all.

    Decision Makers decision;
    4 August 2022 at 7:57am by  [Removed by moderator – Personal Information]
    LCWRA awarded from 29.07.2022
    18 months prognosis awarded in total- HCP recommendation. WCA
    on 29.07.2022
    The claimant initially declared a health condition on 13.01.2022 and
    provided fit notes from 14.04.2022 -13.07.2022. No further fit notes
    have been received. There is no evidence to suggest the claimant has
    Left the health journey, but as the claimant has not provided a current
    fit note, i can see no reason to backdate the award prior to the date of
    the WCA therefore LCWRA is awarded from 29.07.2022
    Evidence used by the DM - FRR4, UC50 and HCP report held on
    MSRS. No ESA interest. Relevant period applies.

    Fit Notes provided to DWP, and ignored;
    06.05.2022
    13.07.2022

    DWP decision 04/08/2022
    Following your Work Capability Assessment, we have decided
    that you have limited capability for work.


    The 3rd appeal hearing was adjorned, because the judge objected to me being my daughters DWP appointee.
    This objection by the Tribunal has been amended, and a 4th Tribunal appeal hearing is going to be listed.

    NO SENSE AT ALL INDEED.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,146 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2023
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    dynz said:
    I fully agree this decision of LCW makes no sense at all
    That's not what i meant. I was referring to your words that assessor awarded LCWRA but that's not possible.
    dynz said:
    I fully agree this decision of LCW makes no sense at all.

    Decision Makers decision;
    4 August 2022 at 7:57am by  [Removed by moderator – REASON]
    LCWRA awarded from 29.07.2022
    18 months prognosis awarded in total- HCP recommendation. WCA
    on 29.07.2022


    What you're doing here is confusing the assessors recommendation as an award but it's not an award because the assessor can't make decisions, they make recommendations only.


    dynz said:

    The claimant initially declared a health condition on 13.01.2022 and
    provided fit notes from 14.04.2022 -13.07.2022. No further fit notes
    have been received. There is no evidence to suggest the claimant has
    Left the health journey, but as the claimant has not provided a current
    fit note, i can see no reason to backdate the award prior to the date of
    the WCA therefore LCWRA is awarded from 29.07.2022
    Evidence used by the DM - FRR4, UC50 and HCP report held on
    MSRS. No ESA interest. Relevant period applies.

    I don't understand this because there's no extra money for LCW for claims that started after April 2017.

    If the decision by the Tribunal is to eventually find them to have LCWRA then they will receive extra money, which will apply from the 4th full assessment period after they provided their first fit note. (provided evidence)
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Jimm_Scope
    Jimm_Scope Posts: 2,705 Scope online community team
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    Just popping in to mention that I've removed the use of someone's full name. Please do avoid this in future as everyone has a right to privacy and these forums are publicly viewable.

    Thank you for reading this.
    They/Them, however they are no wrong pronouns with me so whatever you feel most comfortable with
    Online Community Specialist

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    Opinions are my own, such as mashed potato being bad.
  • dynz
    dynz Community member Posts: 16 Listener
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    Still waiting for another UC appeal Tribunal hearing to be listed.The last appeal hearing was adjouned with the judge instructing the DWP to consider if I should be removed as a DWP appointe for my daughter. The DWP declined to revove my appointee status, seven weeks later.
  • dynz
    dynz Community member Posts: 16 Listener
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    After the 3rd adjouned tribunal appeal hearing, and a delay waiting for the DWP to confirm my status as my daughters appointee, a 4th tribunal appeal hearing was listed. Evidence was filed for the hearing after a discussion with a local disability group regarding the assessment recomendation that my daughter be awarded LCWRA. But the DWP only awarded my daughter LCW.
    On the 4th tribunal video appeal hearing date my daughter and I were present and waiting. But nobody else attended the hearing.
    It transpired over the following week, that the tribunal decided that a hearing was not needed and my daughter was awarded LCWRA.
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 11,011 Scope online community team
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    Great news @dynz. Frustrating they didn't let you know so you and your daughter were sat waiting for it to start. 
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • dynz
    dynz Community member Posts: 16 Listener
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    Many thanks to comments I've received, the assistance of the Barking and Dagenham disability centre, and Benefits & Work.

    You just could not make this up!

    On 4th August 2022, nearly two years after my daughter applied for LCWRA, the DWP UC Decision Maker awarded my daughter LCWRA based on her "Independent Assessment Services", AKA ATOS, assessment. The DWP UC Decision Maker refused to backdate my daughter's LCWRA benefit for 18 months, because he mistakenly believed that my daughter had not provided a current Fit Note, but she had provided a current Fit Note to the Jobcentre on 29/7/2022, a copy of the Fit Note was provided to the assessor on 29/7/22, and the Fit Note was posted to UC. Until an appeal was issued some four months later, the paperwork of the DWP LCWRA decision was not known to me or my daughter. A week later my daughter received a letter from UC awarding her LCW.
    As my daughters DWP appointee I protested to the DWP that my daughter had only been awarded LCW, no joy of course.
    Mandatory Reconsideration request was submitted to DWP UC, but the DWP upheld the LCW decision.
    My daughter issued an Appeal, and the DWP evidence bundle included the 4th August DWP UC Decision Maker's decision, which became the crux of the appeal. Four video appeal hearings were listed;
    1st appeal video hearing was adjourned for more medical evidence.
    2nd appeal video hearing was adjourned because the DWP did not attend.
    3rd appeal video hearing was adjourned because the judge wanted the DWP to confirm that I was a suitable person to be my daughter's DWP Appointee.
    4th appeal video hearing was vacated because the judge and panel had agreed that my daughter qualified for LCWRA. Bit of a mix up because nobody told us that the video hearing had been vacated, and we were sat waiting for hours for the video appeal hearing to start. Telephoning the tribunal did not work because nobody picked up the phone which just rang and rang, the tribunal online chat facility did not work because when you started the chat it stated that somebody would be with you in a minute, and forty minutes later it timed out and cut you off. I telephoned the Tribunal switchboard, but nobody was available to discuss the case.
    The Tribunal decision that my daughter's appeal was upheld, and she  was awarded LCWRA, arrived four days later. 

    BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT!!!!

    I do not blame my daughter for this in any respect. She is autistic, and her communication skills on such issues are limited. Questions about how much benefit she has received are unclear.

    Today, after a review of my daughter’s bank account, and her UC payments, I determined that my daughter was paid LCWRA benefit from August 2022, following the DWP UC Decision Maker's award of LCWRA. It appears that the DWP UC LCW award letter was sent in error.
    The DWP, the Tribunal, my daughter, and me, have all been dealing, and disputing, that my daughter is entitled to LCWRA, with an 18 month appeal for my daughter to be awarded LCWRA.
    At no point has the DWP said or raised anything about LCWRA being awarded to my daughter, and that my daughter has been paid LCWRA benefit since August 2022.
    What a waste of my time, the Tribunal's time, and the DWP's time.

    Onward ever onward. Now I have to get the DWP to backdate my daughter's LCWRA award start date to January 2021.


  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,146 Disability Gamechanger
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    Wow, as her appointee didn't you check her monthly statements to see what was included? It seems like to me that no one really knew (including HMCTS) what was really going on. Such a waste of everyone's time, i agree.

    If she was already being paid the LCWRA element, why wasn't it paid from 2021 instead of 2022? What date exactly did you originally report her health condition/provide a fit note?
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • dynz
    dynz Community member Posts: 16 Listener
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    If there was no change, there was no reason for me to check or review my daughter's benefit payments?
    LCWRA was requested in October 2020, and the UC decision maker in August 2022 refused to backdate LCWRA to January 2021 because he believed my daughter had not provided a current Fit Note, but she had provided a Fit Note.
    I've been advised to make a complaint to the Tribunal about the DWP. I do not see how that will benefit my daughter.
    I'll have a chat with UC tomorrow to see what they think about it. 

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