Frustrated with the DWP and poor Tribunal hearing.

adarroch

Hi.

I have epilepsy, anxiety and depression. I was denied PIP and finally got to a tribunal. Denied again and am just confused and frustrated. Anxiety and depression is closely linked to epilepsy so it's much more difficult for someone like myself to get out of the hole.

The tribunal awarded me just 2 points for engaging with other people, this was likely to be due to how I was on the day. 

A summary of the Tribunals reasons to not award it was "Whilst the Tribunal accepts that the Appellant has the conditions that he has reported, the claimed limitations are inconsistent with both his PIP claim form, the HCP assessment and his day to day functioning"

I simply got the application form wrong. When you have a variable condition like epilepsy you can never claim to be struggling most of the time, if I had seizures most of the time I'd be dead. So I answered the questions honestly with the hope common sense would prevail. That most of the time I could complete these activities. I then changed the story when I learnt, actually my anxiety, lack of sleep and memory loss is actually most of the time and definitely impacts my ability to complete these tasks without prompting. I wasn't even awarded points for washing or bathing yet could drown? 

Its all so frustrating, that a tribunal ruled the DWP were correct, when it was actually me that was incorrect and tried to fix it at a tribunal by explaining what I didn't explain on the form. The application process and assessment is flawed and focuses on the what haven't you got not what you have.

They kept going on about my ability to work even though I work from home.

Something needs to change, especially when I see people self inflicting their own suffering health and somehow qualify. 

Ant advice would be welcomed please, as I don't want to admit defeat just yet. The simple fact is I do have these issues, but wasn't given a fair chance to demonstrate them.

Thanks. 

sxc_afro

Hey,
First off I am sorry you're going through such a stressful and no doubt confusing time. I myself have also had to go through the tribunal process with PIP and I completely understand how daunting it can be. 

I want to try and explain as best I can why you weren't successful.

In a nutshell the tribunal would have looked at your form, your assessment, medications and if you're under any consultants or specialists and your day to day life and even when you were at the tribunal itself. You state you wanted to show them how affected you are, but that isnt how it works, even if you had a bad day and they saw you struggling, it would only be a piece of everything they use to make their decision, which unfortunately didn't favor you.

After that they concluded that while you do have difficulties, they just are not severe enough to get the points needed to be on PIP. It's fairly black and white, can you do these activities yes or no and if not what help do you need to be able to do it if at all.

You yourself said that you wrote you could do the activities most of the time, they accept that during a seizure you wouldn't be able to do the activities but once it is over, you go back to functioning, and I assume they concluded that your epilepsy is controlled meaning you aren't having seizures multiple times a day and having more time in the day where you are not able to function and needing significant help than functioning as normal.

The reason they didn't give you points for bathing and dressing is while they understand there is a risk you could have a seizure and drown, or even just having a fall, they are only focusing on if you can dress and wash without help, which they concluded that you could. Any risks involved aren't counted towards points.

Having anxiety, issues with sleep and memory problems are difficult but again, they would need to seriously affect your ability to perform the tasks, them being a part of your life isn't enough unfortunately, simply having a diagnosed condition doesn't give points, it's how they affect your ability to do the listed activities and how significantly it does. And if they were so bad they affected your ability to do the tasks, they would look at what meds you take for them and if you're getting treatment for them, because that is what they would see if a person is incredibly affected by things like anxiety, to award points. Mental health issues are the toughest to prove to them.

Personally going by what you have said, I do not think you would be successful appealing, if you strongly think they got it wrong by all means appeal, but going by what you have written, I am completely sympathetic to the struggle, right now I don't think you are severely affected enough to get the min points needed to qualify.

Do you have a carer, one that gets carers allowance? If not, that also is what they would use to determine their decision, and if you don't have a carer, it would demonstrate to them that you currently are self sufficient for the most part, and you are able to look after yourself reasonably. You don't seem to have any adaptions to your home, do you see any specialist who can write a report on your conditions and how severe it is? If not, it makes it harder for you. You were at the tribunal, you work from home, everything points to you being able to live without severe difficulty right now. You say you are having to be prompted to do things but again for it to count it would need to be that if you weren't prompted, you wouldn't do certain activity until it caused actual harm, like not eating at all, or paying any bills or taking any medications, they did however accept you had problems socially, hence why they awarded points there.
I know what I'm writing is disappointing, and not what you want to read, but I'm trying to be honest and also explain why in my opinion, you wouldn't be successful even if you appealed, going by everything you have said, you haven't said you can't do a. Activity, only that you sometimes need prompting, but for the most part you are able to do them on your own without help, but that you struggle with it. it's up to you what you do, it won't hurt to appeal it, but you have a huge uphill battle if you do go ahead.

What I would recommend is you go to citizen advice and get some help, they have people who can help you with the court case and help you get your evidence, if you think they got it all wrong, you would need to gather as much evidence to prove you cannot do the activities without help or at all, you can use medical records, occupational therapy reports, things like that, if you don't have anything like that, I'm sorry but I don't see the decision being changed. 


Edit to add

Having the condition isn't the problem, they accept that, but it's how these conditions affect your ability to live and perform the tasks they list, they weren't denying you had difficulties, but they were not given enough evidence to show that your conditions affected your ability to do these tasks so much that they should award you points for it, they are going by what you wrote, and you stated you could do things most of the time, and the only way you would be able to get them to disregard that, is to show with medical evidence, consultant and doctor letters, basically anything and everything that could show you are severely affected and what you can or can't do, but it doesnt make sense why you didn't put that in the form the first time, this is what is against you.

I made a similar blunder, I ticked the wrong box with mobility, they took me off and I went to tribunal, I then sent every bit of medical evidence I could, surgeon reports, the adaptions to my home, occupational therapy reports, letters from social workers who came to the house, plus the medications I took, even xrays and mri reports, all showing I was severely disabled and close to needing a full time wheelchair, if you have all of that, then you may have a chance to change the decision, if not, I dont think it will go in your favor but it won't hurt to try if you truly feel they got it wrong. You will need to really get everything together to prove your case which is why I suggest you go to citizen advice, you may need someone who can guide you to make sure you give them enough evidence to overturn their decision.

adarroch

Thanks very much for your detailed reply. As a person who received DLA as a child and young adult at the highest rates, its baffling how all of a sudden you can get 0 points. The system is not in my favour whatsoever and there lies the problem. I did actually use fightback for Justice to present my case to the court. They managed to score me 9 points but the tribunal disagreed due to inconsistencies vs application form. Fightback wanted the court to consider this:

• Activity 1-Preparing food: seeking d, 2 points

The Appellant requires prompting to complete this activity. He experiences frequent nocturnal seizures which impact him on a daily basis. He suffers from fatigue as a result of poor sleep. Whilst his seizures occur during sleep, the ramifications are felt throughout the day. The Appellant also has recognised and diagnosed mental health conditions for which he is medicated and receives psychological therapy. He experiences reduced motivation, low mood, decreased concentration and periods of forgetfulness. The Panel may wish to consider descriptor E, in accordance with the requirements of Regulation 4 of the Social Security (Personal Independence Payment) Regulations 2013. Assessment should incorporate AI v SSWP (PIP) [2016] UKUT 0322 (AAC) .

• Activity 3-Managing therapy: seeking b, 1 point

The Appellant utilises a dosette box as an aid, in line with Regulation 2 of the Social Security (Personal Independence Payment) Regulations 2013. Fatigue, forgetfulness and reduced concentration impact his ability to complete the activity to the standard required by Regulation 4 (as previous). He is prompted by his wife to fill the dosette and remember to take the contents. These measures permit him to comply with his prescribed medication regimen in order to prevent a deterioration in his health and well-being.

• Activity 4-Washing and bathing: seeking c, 2 points

The Appellant requires prompting to wash on a regular basis. His fatigue and mental health difficulties result in him not valuing the tasks of personal care and hygiene. He is also fearful of falling asleep and experiencing seizure in the bath due to his overwhelming fatigue. This would put him at significant risk of harm within the dangerous bathroom environment. Assessment should therefore incorporate an analysis of safety, in line with Regulation 4 (as previous). Consideration should be given to [2017] AACR 32 unreported RJ, GMcL and CS v SSWP (PIP) [2017] UKUT 0105 (AAC) .

• Activity 6-Dressing and undressing: seeking c, 2 points

The Appellant requires prompting to dress. Fatigue and mental health conditions reduce his motivation and mood. He will sometimes remain in nightwear due to his tiredness and depression. This is another area where the Appellant does not value or prioritise the tasks involved and he will often try to avoid it. He will often feel hopeless, helpless and have an inability to complete the activities of everyday life.

• Activity 9-Engaging with others: seeking b, 2 points

The Appellant requires prompting to engage with others face to face. He reports anxiety around social situations and public places. Even the thought of interaction can result in an escalation of his symptoms and a deterioration in his mental state. He reports panic which can overwhelm him and a total lack of confidence with others. Depression also reduces his motivation to complete this activity. Assessment should incorporate SM v SSWP (PIP) [2019] UKUT 0292 (AAC) .

7/ We trust that the Panel will peruse the evidence and consider that the Appellant should be entitled to the aforementioned rate of PIP. The points should be increased to reflect his diagnosed condition and the limitations presented by them in his everyday life.

They also issues my full medical records backing up my struggles and diagnosis.