ESA Support Group - will Permitted Work (self employed) cause future problems?

Mac_K

Hi all, last year I was placed in the ESA support group (first time, so I’m new to all this).
  
I’ve now got the opportunity to do some self-employed work (low-key, from home, flexible) for a day a week, for a small local company.

I’ve read the official ‘permitted working / less than 16 hours / less than £152 a week’ permitted work - which it would be under this.  

But I wanted to get a sense of how this worked in reality.  Is it worth the risk?  Will it trigger a reassessment or cause future problems with staying on this benefit?  
In reality, I might not manage working for too long, or it might not pan out, but I’d like to try - but only if it doesn’t risk anything with the ESA Support Group benefit.

I’d appreciate any thoughts from your experience.  Thank you

chiarieds

Hi @Mac_K - & welcome to the community. So long as the work you do doesn't contradict your claim, which may then be questioned if reviewed, then this shouldn't cause a problem. You now can earn less than £167 per week:  https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/working-while-you-claim

You'll need to fill in a PW1 form, which you can see here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/employment-and-support-allowance-permitted-work-form/permitted-work-factsheet

Hannah_Alumni

Hello @Mac_K

Welcome to the community! I see chiarieds has answered your query, are you excited by the opportunity? 

Mac_K

Thank you, that’s very helpful.  I am excited, and it’s good to know that I can give this a try without messing anything up with the ESA Support Group stuff regardless of it it works long term or not.  

Is the whole “You now can earn less than £167 per week” continuous?  Only I’d read something about this higher amount only being for 52 weeks maximum and then having to earn to the lower £20 a week threshold for a minimum of 52 weeks, so I was a bit confused about that too?

calcotti

Mac_K said:

Is the whole “You now can earn less than £167 per week” continuous?  Only I’d read something about this higher amount only being for 52 weeks maximum and then having to earn to the lower £20 a week threshold for a minimum of 52 weeks, so I was a bit confused about that too?

No. It’s ongoing with no time limit. The £20 limit was in an old way the rule used to work.
I thinks it is 10th April when the limit increases to £167/week.

Mac_K

calcotti said:

No. It’s ongoing with no time limit. The £20 limit was in an old way the rule used to work.
I thinks it is 10th April when the limit increases to £167/week.

Thank you for explaining, that’s really good to know I don’t have to worry about that (and so much easier / more logical.  I wouldn’t know how a year-on then year-off is supposed to work anyway?!)

Steve_in_The_City

@Mac_K Personally, I wouldn't risk doing any work. Until I retired I was in the Support Group. Things may have changed, I don't know, but when I was placed in the Support Group in 2004 the Government recognised that I was incapable of doing any sort of work. I got extra financial benefits and didn't have to seek employment. I was left well alone. If this ethos still stands and you do some work, you are telling the Government that you are capable of work and therefore shouldn't be in the Support Group. This will create endless difficulties for you. If you leave the Support Group to take employment that isn't long term, your chances of getting back in to the Support Group are zero. You will definitely have future problems. How many £'s you are being paid isn't relevant. The only relevant factor is are you capable of work or not? If you are capable then you shouldn't be in the Support Group. So I would have a good long think about this. Forget how much you are allowed to earn but concentrate on whether or not you wish to remain in the Support Group. You have to weigh up the pro's and con's and think about your long-term future.

poppy123456

Steve_in_The_City said:

@Mac_K Personally, I wouldn't risk doing any work. Until I retired I was in the Support Group. Things may have changed, I don't know, but when I was placed in the Support Group in 2004 the Government recognised that I was incapable of doing any sort of work. I got extra financial benefits and didn't have to seek employment. I was left well alone. If this ethos still stands and you do some work, you are telling the Government that you are capable of work and therefore shouldn't be in the Support Group. This will create endless difficulties for you. If you leave the Support Group to take employment that isn't long term, your chances of getting back in to the Support Group are zero. You will definitely have future problems. How many £'s you are being paid isn't relevant. The only relevant factor is are you capable of work or not? If you are capable then you shouldn't be in the Support Group. So I would have a good long think about this. Forget how much you are allowed to earn but concentrate on whether or not you wish to remain in the Support Group. You have to weigh up the pro's and con's and think about your long-term future.

I disagree with that, sorry. There's lots of people that do permitted work while in the Support Group and haven't had any issues at all. Same applies for LCWRA for UC, lots of people work at the same time.

Mac_K

Steve_in_The_City said:

@Mac_K Personally, I wouldn't risk doing any work. Until I retired I was in the Support Group. Things may have changed, I don't know, but when I was placed in the Support Group in 2004 the Government recognised that I was incapable of doing any sort of work. I got extra financial benefits and didn't have to seek employment. I was left well alone. If this ethos still stands and you do some work, you are telling the Government that you are capable of work and therefore shouldn't be in the Support Group. This will create endless difficulties for you. If you leave the Support Group to take employment that isn't long term, your chances of getting back in to the Support Group are zero. You will definitely have future problems. How many £'s you are being paid isn't relevant. The only relevant factor is are you capable of work or not? If you are capable then you shouldn't be in the Support Group. So I would have a good long think about this. Forget how much you are allowed to earn but concentrate on whether or not you wish to remain in the Support Group. You have to weigh up the pro's and con's and think about your long-term future.

This is what I was concerned about, that somehow this would push me up a list to be quickly reassessed and potentially cause issues with being in the Support Group that I can’t afford to cause.

I’ve worked for more than 30 years before my current disability (even though the last decade I had to go self-employed as I couldn’t manage normal work hours, then as my health deteriorated it got less and less until not able to work at all), so I’m very grateful to be I the Support Group because of that impossible (and very stressful) situation I was in before.  

But if I can manage just a little work now and again I’d enjoy it very much, but if it caused issues with this it would just put me back in the impossible-to-sustain position of before where I can’t work enough or consistently to manage, and I just don’t want to risk that.  It’s hard to know what to do for the best, long term, here.  


Out of interest, how often is a reassessment likely to happen, regardless of if I also did or didn’t do some work?

chiarieds

i would be guided by poppy & calcotti, as they know an awful lot about benefits. You can certainly work whilst in the support group, so long as you don't go over the earnings limit (the govts website does say less than £167 per week, but maybe they're ahead of themselves!), & it's less than 16 hours a week, then your ESA will not be affected.

You can be reassessed at any time, but my understanding is that due to backlogs this isn't too likely soon.

poppy123456

Reviews are currently suspended so you won’t be reviewed anytime soon.

Mac_K

Thanks everyone, this has all been very helpful 

Breacon

Very informative reading, it's always good to be cautious, if your not sure, interesting to read all comments relating to this topic.

sharlynn

hi there…

I came across this page and would like to ask a few questions re permitted work.

I have been doing permitted work now for over a year (DWP are aware) I am self employed and work roughly around 10 hours a week making crafts and selling (from home) I am on old style ESA income based. My question is do I pay tax on my earnings? Not sure if it is contribute based or income based that you pay tax.

also….when I move over to UC would I still be able to do my permitted work?

Thank you so much for reading this

kind regards

Sharlynn🙂

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/936602#Comment_936602

This is an old thread from April 2023 that you posted on. You will only need to pay tax if your taxable income is more than £12,570/year. Income Related ESA isn't taxable, only contributions based ESA is taxable.

If your earnings are more than £1,000/year have you registered as self employed with HMRC?

https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/who-must-send-a-tax-return

When you eventually migrate to UC permitted work rules do not apply. Instead you will have the work allowance. This means that some of the earnings you receive each month are ignored before deductions apply.

If you claim for help with the rent at the moment the work allowance is £404/month, if you don't it will be £673/month. For every £1 of earnings received over those amounts your UC will reduce by 55p.

You will also be expected to report your earnings and expenses each month.

sharlynn

oh ty Poppy for replying so quickly…very kind of you….

I have paid £670.00 in tax from my earnings to HMRC…but I am not sure if I had to because I am in income based…

I don’t get any help with rent or my Morgage.

As I say….I am income based so do I need to pay HMRC anything?

Would I be able to go on new style ESA or will it have to be UC?

Thank you again

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/936642#Comment_936642

You're welcome. You need to check if part of your ESA is contributions based because it may not be all Income Related. You should receive a P60 each year and it will tell you on there what your taxable income is. If it's below the personal allowance then no tax is payable.

If part of your ESA is contributions based then this will revert to New style ESA anyway when you migrate to UC and that will be dedicated in full from any UC entitlement.

Contributions based/New style ESA is £138.20/week.