Devastated - Scored 0 points for PIP - and 0 points for MR

sam02

Basically I applied for PIP last year, scored 0 points in both the initial assessment and MR, and now my only options are to give up, or face a tribunal.

If I go down the tribunal route, I mean is there an actual chance in hell it's even remotely possible to go from 0 to an actual award?

I feel truly devastated that I scored 0 points, and put in so much effort and had so much belief that I would be awarded at least something. It is very demoralising, and I just wonder how I will cope if I went down the tribunal route, and still didn't get an award.

chiarieds

Hi @sam02 - I'm sorry to read your claim has thus far been unsuccessful. However, we have had members here who have been awarded PIP with a tribunal, going from no points whatsoever, so don't give up hope. A tribunal is totally separate from the DWP, & all they want to understand is exactly how your disability affects you the majority of the time looking at the PIP descriptors. Whilst the success rate with a Mandatory Reconsideration is only just above 20%, with a Tribunal the average is over 70%.

Please know that everyone here will support you along the way should you choose to go for a Tribunal.

nasturtium

Hello Sam02

I have posted some advice about PIP on this forum post here that you might find of some use. All the information can be used when you are doing your appeal. You do not need to do this when you apply for appeal but you can do as advised as a submission after you appeal has been accepted. All you need to do is to say breifly why you are appealing your claim. I will link you to my forum post instead of writting the post out again. https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/680205/#Comment_680205

Hope that helps.

Nasturtium

Lottie1732

I know it's devastating. It's so personal and for most of us, lifechanging. Just keep holding on. At least, if at the final hurdle, it still fails, you didn't fail. The system did. Fight until you can't fight anymore. Can you get some help - by that I mean a face-to-face advisor?  (in addition to the excellent help you can get here). Keep going. It is after all a process. You're working through a (flawed) process. I got 4 points and that was all. 

A DWP employee told me that a telephone assessment is (mostly) likely to fail. Nobody can make an informed decision about someone else by what they say on a phone call and the tone of their voice and their perceived demeanor of that person. It's just not possible. Face-to-face is the way to go. When I reach the tribunal stage (after my MR fails, which it will) then I will make sure it's in person. The telephone assessment and how ridiculous it is makes sense. The qualifications of the assessors and the decision makers is also open to question. My refusal letter is a very poor cut and paste job with multiple repetitions, nonsense statements and grammatical errors. It took me about 10 days to pluck up the courage to actually read it properly. When I did, I can see that the decision maker probably didn't read it either! They are health professionals, working from home with a specific remit. 

Difficult though it is, stick with it. As we know on our Scope forum - we go from zero or almost zero to full awards. 

Take care
Lottie.

rebel11

Lottie1732 said:

I know it's devastating. It's so personal and for most of us, lifechanging. Just keep holding on. At least, if at the final hurdle, it still fails, you didn't fail. The system did. Fight until you can't fight anymore. Can you get some help - by that I mean a face-to-face advisor?  (in addition to the excellent help you can get here). Keep going. It is after all a process. You're working through a (flawed) process. I got 4 points and that was all. 

A DWP employee told me that a telephone assessment is (mostly) likely to fail. Nobody can make an informed decision about someone else by what they say on a phone call and the tone of their voice and their perceived demeanor of that person. It's just not possible. Face-to-face is the way to go. When I reach the tribunal stage (after my MR fails, which it will) then I will make sure it's in person. The telephone assessment and how ridiculous it is makes sense. The qualifications of the assessors and the decision makers is also open to question. My refusal letter is a very poor cut and paste job with multiple repetitions, nonsense statements and grammatical errors. It took me about 10 days to pluck up the courage to actually read it properly. When I did, I can see that the decision maker probably didn't read it either! They are health professionals, working from home with a specific remit. 

Difficult though it is, stick with it. As we know on our Scope forum - we go from zero or almost zero to full awards. 

Take care
Lottie.

Neat post, unfortunately the system is flawed, but don't give up, simply because the system wants you to give up, put your best case forward. The guys here are very supportive.     

ladyluck

Hi sam02- sorry to hear you’ve had a negative result. Please don’t give up. I got mine at MR after two phone calls. My friend is currently going for a tribunal and she scored nothing too. She’s actually much worse off with her disability than I am! I don’t understand the parameters they use,  but agree with others when they say their words haven’t been applied. Much is lost in translation. If you think you should be on this benefit, please, for the sake of others who have also been turned down and yourself,  keep going. I would have proceeded to a tribunal had the MR not been favourable. and won’t be getting a check for ten years! That’s how much of a mistake they made with my claim. It’s about how you feel, how you’re suffering and how that impacts your life. I’m actually feeling  a bit better now medications have been changed, but still have some really bad days. Keep going, we’re all here to support you! I wish you luck. 

nasturtium

Hello Lottie1732

I fully agree with most of what you said but there are a few things I would like to point out for others who might be reading.

Lottie1732 said:

A DWP employee told me that a telephone assessment is (mostly) likely to fail. Nobody can make an informed decision about someone else by what they say on a phone call and the tone of their voice and their perceived demeanor of that person. It's just not possible.

The above is not correct. The reason why you have an assessment is to fill in the blanks left off on your PIP2 questionnaire form (how does your disability affect you) It is upto the claimant to give detailed verbal evidence on there questionaire forms on how there disability affects them for each of the 12 PIP activities according to the descriptors for each activity. You need to be looking for atleast half a page of detailed description of the problems you have for each descriptor including why you cannot do that activity "Reliably" and that is Safely, repeatedly, in a timely manor and to an acceptable standard. I have exlained about this in the link I posted referencing a reply I made to another person on this forum. It is the quality of the personal evidence on the PIP2 Questionaire form that determins if you require an asesment or not.

Lottie1732 said:

Face-to-face is the way to go.

For some a Face to face assessment might be the prefered option but for most people who have mental health problems the thought of a face to face assessment would be a major barrier for them making the claim in the first place. It is good that there is now an option for a claimant to request a Telephone assessment if they cannot manage a face to face because of there mental or physical disabilities.

Lottie1732 said:

The qualifications of the assessors and the decision makers is also open to question. My refusal letter is a very poor cut and paste job with multiple repetitions, nonsense statements and grammatical errors.

This is another very comon mistake people make when claiming PIP they think they are being assessed by Qualified health proffessionals. They are being assessed by qualified health proffessionals but they might be qualified in a different fielf of health and not nesseseraly know the health condition of the claimant. This is why a detailed "Dummies Guide To My Health Disabilities" is required on your PIP2 Questionnaire form. You need to explain in detail why you have difficulties with the 12 PIP activities because two people with the same health condition or disability and have two totally different problems doing the PIP activity in question. Also the cut and paste reasons given on the decsision letter can very easily be refuted by the qulaity of your verbal evidence you give on your PIP2 Questionnaire form.

Please do not think I am having ago at you or being nasty because I am not I am just pointing out a few things on your post that others might find informative

You have been more compassionate that I could be on your reply and I fully respect that

Kind Regards

Nasturtium

Lottie1732

nasturtium said:

 I am just pointing out a few things on your post that others might find informative

Hi Nasturtium. 

I'm totally with you on everything you said. All these difficult things have different mileages and we all have different experiences. This is why I think the Scope forum is so valuable.   The reality is that I can't really know and understand what I think unless I know what you think (as described by Alan Watts, who has been keeping me sane lately). Having a debate and exchanging ideas means everything.  

Lottie

p.s. your username makes me think I should be thinking about my hanging baskets!