switching from JSA to UC with a three month fit note

andrew18

i know someone who is currently on JSA and has asked and got a three month backdated fit note from the Dr, they are waiting until they next sign on before switching to UC, this will take them pass the three months by over a week, i did let this person know before asking for a fit note that they cannot be on a fit note with JSA for three months as after this time they will not get paid anything because of the 13 week continuous illness rule that JSA have in place, from my understanding ones switch to UC and money has been worked out, for every day over this 13 weeks would be a over payments and they would have to pay it all back, i feel they have really messed things up as if i am right this would include JSA, rent and child tax, they have already handed in the fit note, but i have come here to see how messed up things are and is there a way they can sort things out 

thank you  

calcotti

A claimant doesn’t just ‘switch’ from JSA to UC. To get UC a claim for UC has been made. Have they made a claim for UC?

If they have a partner they both must claim for UC and any UC entitlement will depend on their jo8nt circumstances.

poppy123456

They can send fit notes for JSA but this will have no bearing on the 3 month waiting period for UC because they're not claiming UC at the moment.

The waiting period for UC starts from when you report a health conditon, supported by fit note within 7 days of that. They will only receive extra money if found to have LCWRA.

If they claim UC the JSA will continue for 2 weeks and then stop (assuming it's Income Related) They won't have an overpayment. If they claim housing benefit for help with the rent then this will also continue for 2 weeks and then stop. Rent will then be included with their UC. There won't be an overpayment for housing benefit.

Tax credits stop once the UC claim has been submitted.

andrew18

calcotti said:

A claimant doesn’t just ‘switch’ from JSA to UC. To get UC a claim for UC has been made. Have they made a claim for UC?

If they have a partner they both must claim for UC and any UC entitlement will depend on their jo8nt circumstances.

this was not my question, i understand this part, as when you make a claim from JSA to UC, you do not close your JSA claim, you just start a UC claim, takes about five weeks to get your first payment and in my case i had one week over payment of child tax that was recovered automatically from UC, thank you for your feedback, but my question was someone who is on JSA has been given a three month fit not, with JSA you are not allowed to be unwell for 13 weeks continuedly as this would null your claim, the problem is more with JSA old rules and less about UC, i know if you are on UC and have a minimum one month fit note you can file for a UC50, this takes about three months to be paid the extra 390 if found to be in the LCWRA group, but your first payment is on the fourth month of making a new UC claim, if it take longer, you are back dated up to three months after your claim, so in my case i made a new claim to UC, it taken four months to sort out, i phoned them up and they paid my the backpay there and then, to over the fourth month, and then paid normal on the fifth and so on

poppy123456

After 13 weeks they will be classed as a job seeker. 

andrew18

poppy123456 said:

They can send fit notes for JSA but this will have no bearing on the 3 month waiting period for UC because they're not claiming UC at the moment.

The waiting period for UC starts from when you report a health conditon, supported by fit note within 7 days of that. They will only receive extra money if found to have LCWRA.

If they claim UC the JSA will continue for 2 weeks and then stop (assuming it's Income Related) They won't have an overpayment. If they claim housing benefit for help with the rent then this will also continue for 2 weeks and then stop. Rent will then be included with their UC. There won't be an overpayment for housing benefit.

Tax credits stop once the UC claim has been submitted.

hi, this is a more a JSA problem as you are not allowed to be continuously unwell for more than 13 weeks it is a old rule or your claim stops, i had this problem and DWP phoned me up explaining that i needed to switch to UC before the three months pass as i would not be getting anything and left with no JSA, they also said that my JSA adviser is wrong about the two week run as i would be entering UC with a fit note, but for someone switched from JSA to UC without a fit note, they would get this two week run as you said, as for this LCWRA you said you need to be claiming UC for three months before you get a payment, it also takes about three months to sort out, if longer then a backpay would be paid, if you have high rate PIP i believe you do not need to have an assessment but you still need to wait the three months, but my question is more about a JSA problem with being given a three months fit note and then also not switching for over a week, i feel if they are found out, that the there will be a over payment of JSA after this three moths rule, and the time after this would be counted as a over payment and this could trigger other problems as they would effectively not be on JSA at this time and any over payments recovered in UC claim, also as they is a gap between benefits it could also be questioned if they would also get the next cost of living payment, as i questioned that when i was switching and they said i cannot have a gap between JSA and UC      

poppy123456

I’m sorry but your thoughts on not needing an assessment if claiming PIP are not correct. Claiming PIP doesn’t automatically entitle anyone to LCWRA and an assessment will be needed. 

I’m not aware of the 13 weeks counting towards the 3 month waiting period when you transfer from JSA. 

During the 3 month waiting period  the extra money isn’t paid at all. The first payment starts from the 4th month after the health condition was reported. If it takes longer than this for a decision to be made then you will be owed money from the 4th month. 

I’ll tag a member of the scope team who will be able to advise you further. @Ad@Adrian_Scope can you help here please.

andrew18

poppy123456 said:

I’m sorry but your thoughts on not needing an assessment if claiming PIP are not correct. Claiming PIP doesn’t automatically entitle anyone to LCWRA and an assessment will be needed. 

I’m not aware of the 13 weeks counting towards the 3 month waiting period when you transfer from JSA. 

During the 3 month waiting period  the extra money isn’t paid at all. The first payment starts from the 4th month after the health condition was reported. If it takes longer than this for a decision to be made then you will be owed money from the 4th month. 

I’ll tag a member of the scope team who will be able to advise you further. @Ad@Adrian_Scope can you help here please.

my problem is not at all with LCWRA or PIP, it is the problem i see with being on JSA for longer than 13 weeks with a fit note, UC just works as normal, i will share a link about the 13 week rule, i see this part as being a over payment of anything after this 13 weeks as after this time you are no longer claiming JSA from my understanding and there by not able to claim other things like housing, so any payment would in error and recovered, thank you for you help and linking someone who can answer a JSA problem  

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/resources/new-style-jobseekers-allowance#:~:text=If you fall ill,-If you fall&text=If your illness is expected,rolling 12-month period).

poppy123456

Yes you can’t continue with a fit note after 13 weeks and you’ll be classed as job seeker (which is what I advised). If you’re not looking for work then a claim for UC will be needed and you’ll need to report your health condition. 

When you claim UC you will also be classed as a job seeker until a decision is made on the WCA. It’s a work coaches discretion to either turn off or reduce commitments. Some do and some don’t. 

The reason I mentioned LCWRA and PIP is because I was responding to what you said about PIP and LCWRA. 

Housing benefit can continue with zero income. Tax credits can also continue. 

Adrian_Scope

poppy123456 said:

I’m not aware of the 13 weeks counting towards the 3 month waiting period when you transfer from JSA. 

Thanks for the mention @poppy123456

@andrew18 on JSA the 'extended period of sickness' rule is for 13 weeks, after which time as you both say, the claimant will no longer be able to claim JSA and will need to claim UC (or New Style ESA if eligible).

It's my understanding that as long as they claim UC (or NS ESA) as soon as they're able without gaps between claims, the EPS on JSA should be included when calculating the wait period. 

See here (point 7.9): Explanatory Memorandum to the JSA Extended Period of Sickness amendment 2015. 

And copied below:
The instrument also amends the Universal Credit (Transitional) Regulations 2014 (2014/1230).7 UC is a new working age income-related social security benefit that will replace current income-related benefits. In a similar way to ESA, UC claimants who are found to have limited capability for work or limited capability for work and work-related activity must complete a 3 month period before the additional UC elements become payable. This is called the UC ‘relevant period’. The amendment enables the calculation of the UC relevant period to include the EPS where JSA claimants make a claim for UC and move immediately into the UC relevant period. 

poppy123456

Thanks Adrian, much appreciated!