PIP review (AR1 form) Text Message decision

LIZ007

I received a text msg saying "Your PIP review is complete. You should receive your decision letter in 2 weeks. One you receive your letter, contact us if you have any questions." This is my 1st review w PIP, and I read in a deep dive into forums that someone said they don't text you Yes or No when it is a review - is this true? I cant tell from my payments as they are not due for an entire month as I just received my recent PIP payment. Help so I know to prep for the fight if I need to. I have asked for the report which came through the post to my sister so I have not seen it yet if there are discrepancies. 

Also it might give clearer context, that my AR1 was badly filled in by my "family" with one word answers and so it relied on my phone assessment where I had a rep from fightback4justice be on the call as my appointee or support. Additionally, since the AR1 form and evidence were sent in January's 2022, I decided to send in the updated evidence that had not changed for the past year, as all they can see is from 2021! Then In that time I was also dx with AUSTISM AND ADHD so I sent the proof of that too... my question being is it now a change of circumstance 🥴 and how does this affect a review. I don't think that text message is fair to not reveal the decision 🤔 and I wonder if it has ended. Please note this is a review, so are the text messages indeed different to the first time applicants? 

poppy123456

This text message they are sending is a new thing for PIP and has only very recently in the past week started to send it to claimants. 

You are correct when it’s a review they do not send texts if there’s an award. These are only sent to new claimants.

It will be impossible to predict what the decision is at this point. Hopefully you will receive the decision letter soon. 

If you’re not happy then I’d advise you to post back here and someone will advise you further. 

Vettie64

I received the same txt this morning regarding my review , my anxiety is through the roof now wondering if I am going to have to go through an appeal , can you update when you have any news please , hope you are successful 

cay1966

I have the same message this morning. Has anyone had a positive outcome ?

LIZ007

I got awarded but they lowered it to standard Daily Living, even though I have AN ADDITIONAL diagnosis of ASD.

Honestly this "review" process is exactly the same as an initial application for PIP, except this time they can't award 0 and award 2 instead. 

Time for a mandatory reconsideration and then a fight to tribunal, meanwhile cut pay and likely unable to make rent. 

Has anyone got experience with reviews making life difficult?

nasturtium

Hello Liz007

Yes it is worth appealing if you can manage with an appeal. First you would need to write a detailed Mandatory Reconsideration letter. Do not telephone to start your MR do it by Letter. You have 1 month from the descision letter or 13 months with a good reason why your MR Letter is late. You can find my advice on this link here https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/696285#Comment_696285

I hope that helps

Nasturtium

nasturtium

LIZ007 said:
Honestly this "review" process is exactly the same as an initial application for PIP, except this time they can't award 0 and award 2 instead.

Just to add that claimants need to treat the review form like a new claim and give detailed personal anacdotal evidence on the form or on additional sheets with the form. If using additional sheets quote the additional sheets on the review form.

Yes they can award Zero points on a review it there is not enough detailed verbal anacdotal evidence on the Review form.

Nasturtium

poppy123456

LIZ007 said:

I got awarded but they lowered it to standard Daily Living, even though I have AN ADDITIONAL diagnosis of ASD.

It's not about a diagnosis.

LIZ007

It is when the diagnosis involves therapy and medications. You can't get one without the other.

poppy123456

LIZ007 said:

It is when the diagnosis involves therapy and medications. You can't get one without the other.

I’m sorry but it’s still not about a diagnosis. 

LIZ007

Its "how your Disability or condition affects you" which is why they say its not about the diagnosis. You still need the diagnosis. Those of us who are have been through the entire process and succeeded, know that most disabilities and conditions must be diagnosed in order to meet the required criteria for "how" they affect us. This is a key factor in successful applications. 

StillIRise

LIZ007 said:

It’s "how your Disability or condition affects you" which is why they say it’s not about the diagnosis. You still need the diagnosis. Those of us who are have been through the entire process and succeeded, know that most disabilities and conditions must be diagnosed in order to meet the required criteria for "how" they affect us. This is a key factor in successful applications. 

You’re absolutely right. You have to have a diagnosis in the first place. The DWP also have extensive guides for decision makers listing all the main diagnosed conditions and how they’d typically affect the claimant.

poppy123456

LIZ007 said:

Its "how your Disability or condition affects you" which is why they say its not about the diagnosis. You still need the diagnosis. Those of us who are have been through the entire process and succeeded, know that most disabilities and conditions must be diagnosed in order to meet the required criteria for "how" they affect us. This is a key factor in successful applications. 

No it's not.

StillIRise said:

LIZ007 said:

It’s "how your Disability or condition affects you" which is why they say it’s not about the diagnosis. You still need the diagnosis. Those of us who are have been through the entire process and succeeded, know that most disabilities and conditions must be diagnosed in order to meet the required criteria for "how" they affect us. This is a key factor in successful applications. 

You’re absolutely right. You have to have a diagnosis in the first place. The DWP also have extensive guides for decision makers listing all the main diagnosed conditions and how they’d typically affect the claimant.

Neither of those comments are correct at all. You do not need a diagnosis to successfully claim PIP. Very often a diagnosis is not in question. Many people claim it without a diagnosis. When i claimed for my daughter back in 2017 she didn't have a diagnosis of anything and she was awarded Enhanced for both parts.

There's many members here that also claim it and don't have a diagnosis. I can't see any diagnosis mentioned in this guide. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

nasturtium

Hello Liz007

Poppy is 100% correct. You do not need a diagnosis to claim PIP. Please read the excerpt bellow from IAS or Independent Assessment Services who do the PIP assessments.

"A consultation for PIP considers a claimant’s ability to carry out a series of everyday activities as outlined in the DWP’s PIP Assessment Guide. People who are claiming PIP are assessed on functionality rather than diagnosis."

https://www.mypipassessment.co.uk/supporting-evidence/medical-professionals-guide/

So it is up to the Claimant to give detailed personal written anacdotal evidence (like I explained in my previous reply) on there inability to functionally do the 12 PIP activities Reliably (Safely, repeatedly, in a timely manor and to an acceptable standard) The Reliably criteria are enshrined in law so if you can show that it is not safe for you to do the activity and you need help by one of the descriptors then you will score points. The key is your detailed personal written anacdotal evidence on your PIP2 Questionnaire form. Please read more about the reliably criteria https://www.mypipassessment.co.uk/updates/what-are-the-reliability-criteria-that-are-used-during-the-pip-consultation/ and https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably

I hope that helps

Nasturtium

LIZ007

StillIRise said:

LIZ007 said:

It’s "how your Disability or condition affects you" which is why they say it’s not about the diagnosis. You still need the diagnosis. Those of us who are have been through the entire process and succeeded, know that most disabilities and conditions must be diagnosed in order to meet the required criteria for "how" they affect us. This is a key factor in successful applications. 

You’re absolutely right. You have to have a diagnosis in the first place. The DWP also have extensive guides for decision makers listing all the main diagnosed conditions and how they’d typically affect the claimant.

Yes, and it's the awareness and study of these guides and regulations that succeed one claim over another. Even down to the style of language used (buzzwords). Without it, it's how many (or most) score 0 at first try.

This is also why there are dedicated teams and companies who will fill out the form on a claimants behalf. 

LIZ007

nasturtium said:

Hello Liz007

Poppy is 100% correct. You do not need a diagnosis to claim PIP. Please read the excerpt bellow from IAS or Independent Assessment Services who do the PIP assessments.

"A consultation for PIP considers a claimant’s ability to carry out a series of everyday activities as outlined in the DWP’s PIP Assessment Guide. People who are claiming PIP are assessed on functionality rather than diagnosis."

https://www.mypipassessment.co.uk/supporting-evidence/medical-professionals-guide/

So it is up to the Claimant to give detailed personal written anacdotal evidence (like I explained in my previous reply) on there inability to functionally do the 12 PIP activities Reliably (Safely, repeatedly, in a timely manor and to an acceptable standard) The Reliably criteria are enshrined in law so if you can show that it is not safe for you to do the activity and you need help by one of the descriptors then you will score points. The key is your detailed personal written anacdotal evidence on your PIP2 Questionnaire form. Please read more about the reliably criteria https://www.mypipassessment.co.uk/updates/what-are-the-reliability-criteria-that-are-used-during-the-pip-consultation/ and https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably

I hope that helps

Nasturtium

It's not how the process technically works. The diagnosis is not how they base points, simply because there wouldn't be no need whatsoever to go through the grueling application in the first instance IF it was.

The requirement to base it on "how your Disability affects you" is to go through you eligibility.

For the most part, without a diagnosis to begin with, there is no way to PROVE your condition affects you at all.

It is misleading to describe the process any other way when we break the application and the assessors guidelines, down.

The reliability clauses must be backed up with a evidence, as you stated. Said evidence in favour of the claimant some from Doctors, Specialists, Therapists, Medications, Misc Treatments, Carers, Support Workers, Appointees, Home aids, Everyday aids.

Otherwise by the very reasoning stated by way of no diagnosis required - there is no application that could fail to meet the guidelines and criteria.

LIZ007

Neither of those comments are correct at all. You do not need a diagnosis to successfully claim PIP. Very often a diagnosis is not in question. Many people claim it without a diagnosis. When i claimed for my daughter back in 2017 she didn't have a diagnosis of anything and she was awarded Enhanced for both parts.

There's many members here that also claim it and don't have a diagnosis. I can't see any diagnosis mentioned in this guide. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

Please do note I do say most claimants. This will not be the case for all provided they are able to provide sufficient evidence based answers. 

Additionally, there are a large percentile of claimants who do not have a legal carer for their needs and also have what is called "invisible diseases and or conditions and disabilities". For these people especially, they need to have medical /specialist based evidence. It isn't avoidable by any means and the language the PIP uses can be misleading for this very reason.
To take the .GOV/PIP statements for face value without knowledge of their specific guidelines, will ultimately result in a failed application when they likely should be in reciept.

Both sides of this sword we are discussing must be taken into consideration for most claimants, to pass the application process.

StillIRise

LIZ007 said:

StillIRise said:

LIZ007 said:

It’s "how your Disability or condition affects you" which is why they say it’s not about the diagnosis. You still need the diagnosis. Those of us who are have been through the entire process and succeeded, know that most disabilities and conditions must be diagnosed in order to meet the required criteria for "how" they affect us. This is a key factor in successful applications. 

You’re absolutely right. You have to have a diagnosis in the first place. The DWP also have extensive guides for decision makers listing all the main diagnosed conditions and how they’d typically affect the claimant.

Yes, and it's the awareness and study of these guides and regulations that succeed one claim over another. Even down to the style of language used (buzzwords). Without it, it's how many (or most) score 0 at first try.

This is also why there are dedicated teams and companies who will fill out the form on a claimants behalf. 

100%

I've successfully claimed DLA and then PIP for many years, without ever needing to go to tribunal or do MR, and even managed to get paper-based assessments most times due to the evidence and what I've said on my form.  Of course a diagnosis is a part of it.  That doesn't mean that if you say " I have such and such disease" that automatically qualifies you for PIP.  But if you don't have a diagnosis -- i.e. something wrong with you that prevents you being able to carry out daily care and/or mobility needs the way a person without disabilities would -- then why would you even need PIP?

I think some people here are getting confused between "diagnosis" and "formal diagnosis."  You don't necessarily need to have been formally diagnosed (i.e. by a qualified medical doctor) with anything to get PIP, but you are going to have a diagnosis in the sense that something is wrong with your health.  People with perfectly functioning mental and physical health would not need PIP.

poppy123456

StillIRise said:

LIZ007 said:

StillIRise said:

LIZ007 said:

It’s "how your Disability or condition affects you" which is why they say it’s not about the diagnosis. You still need the diagnosis. Those of us who are have been through the entire process and succeeded, know that most disabilities and conditions must be diagnosed in order to meet the required criteria for "how" they affect us. This is a key factor in successful applications. 

You’re absolutely right. You have to have a diagnosis in the first place. The DWP also have extensive guides for decision makers listing all the main diagnosed conditions and how they’d typically affect the claimant.

Yes, and it's the awareness and study of these guides and regulations that succeed one claim over another. Even down to the style of language used (buzzwords). Without it, it's how many (or most) score 0 at first try.

This is also why there are dedicated teams and companies who will fill out the form on a claimants behalf. 

I think some people here are getting confused between "diagnosis" and "formal diagnosis."  You don't necessarily need to have been formally diagnosed (i.e. by a qualified medical doctor) with anything to get PIP, but you are going to have a diagnosis in the sense that something is wrong with your health.  People with perfectly functioning mental and physical health would not need PIP.

In other words as has been advised a diagnosis isn’t needed to successfully be awarded PIP. Of course if a person can function without any issues there would be no PIP entitlement. 

poppy123456

LIZ007 said:

Neither of those comments are correct at all. You do not need a diagnosis to successfully claim PIP. Very often a diagnosis is not in question. Many people claim it without a diagnosis. When i claimed for my daughter back in 2017 she didn't have a diagnosis of anything and she was awarded Enhanced for both parts.

There's many members here that also claim it and don't have a diagnosis. I can't see any diagnosis mentioned in this guide. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

Additionally, there are a large percentile of claimants who do not have a legal carer for their needs and also have what is called "invisible diseases and or conditions and disabilities". For these people especially, they need to have medical /specialist based evidence.

Im very familiar with invisible conditions because myself and my daughter has them. 

You don’t need specialist based evidence at all. The first time I claimed for my daughter in 2017 I had no medical evidence to send. In 2021 I had a PIP review and most of my claim was based on my anecdotal evidence. I had a paper based assessment. 

The most important part of any PIP claim in the form you fill in. A lot of claimants fail to give enough of information, which results in a refusal. 

Cher_Alumni

Hi all,

PIP itself can be an emotive topic. I know lots of us have our own lived experiences of going through assessments, the dreaded brown envelope, appeals.. shudder... but I appreciate understandings of the process can differ. 

So to clarify, an individual should have a condition (doesn't require a formal diagnosis), impacting their functional ability to complete the PIP activities and descriptors, to make a claim. To show their limitations, anecdotal evidence is effective as it illustrates the nuanced ways they are impacted by their condition - I know personally, my crohn's disease is less severe than say Rita down the street's. This isn't to dismiss the validity of medical evidence, and as stated above, sometimes it adds value to claims but for the majority giving examples from daily life is impactful and sufficient.

I hope all those waiting on this thread for a decision, get it soon and a deserved outcome too  Please keep us posted.