A rant and question

VillageRepeat

Hello everybody, thank you for taking the time to read my post. I am absolutely disheartened.. I know the time it takes to do something doesn't mean automatic paper assessment but i spent weeks over months in mental agony filling out my PIP2 form whenever i could, giving as much information about myself as i could. They know how far i can walk, my critically low mental state, my non-existant energy. I still know i didn't mention everything but for anyone with a sense of understanding and those who may even attempt to see PIP Applicants as people, i'm obviously not suitable for the face-to-face assessment i've just been booked in for.

I honestly feel so defenseless about these things because i am applying to PIP because of how debilitating my symptoms are, both physical and mental. They're literally asking me to come down to an assessment centre when i said i can't bare people so much that i'll change my route to avoid them, or how i can't even get off the street without being utterly exhausted, and thats in winter, where fatigue made worse by heat isn't a factor. Just to make it worse, despite you only leaving the house (and still barely) at night to avoid people, we'll book you in for midday, i'm outraged that i'm supposed to plead my case with an organisation that clearly hasn't even tried to read what i've sent them or made any attempt at accomodation, why do they have home-visits if not for people like me?

Then, if i can't attend, to RING them? You're dealing with people who have issues debilitating enough that it affects their normal, functional life which often includes physchological problems and the only route i have to dispute this is to ring you? Also take no notice that i struggle so much with talking on the phone that my entire application so far has been through the post, where i have rather waited months for them to recieve a letter than call.

I'm sorry this is rant-y, but i did also make this post to try and be productive. What options do i feasibly have here? Chance of alternate appointment? Consequence? Feasibility? Sure, if i really must ring, life or death, i can put on a brave-face, spend days preparing just like anyone could if needed. Pretend like i'm fine though how unfine i am i can't even put into words, but isn't the entire point of this process not to pretend like everything is golden? It's like you wanted me to tell you i have severe social problems just so that you can arrange for me to be a public speaker at an event, and in that public speech, i should tell you about my issues. Perhaps this isn't a big deal for somebody else, but when you consider that my entire application paints a picture of how impossible a face-to-face appointment for me is, both physologically and physically, there is a complete disconnect in recieving an appointment for one. I would go as far as to say that it's ethically questionable to put me under these conditions especially given the institution has alternatives

Tronster

Hey there

This is gonna sound a little harsh but bear with me and I don't mean it this way at all

If it was easy, everyone would apply and be awarded it? There is a reason why these things are done a certain way. It's more to test a situation, but like when they ask you what medication you take and how much and how often, if you say you're forgetful. IT's to test IF you can do it and i would imagine this would be the same way

You've got to understand they get around 4-5mil applications a year, and around 600 staff to process them, that equates to around 40 applications 1 person has to process. So they don't have time to read in detail regarding this and make the adjustments... they should do it, but it doesn't work that way unfortunately  

This also allows them to catch out the people who are "Exaggerating" their symptoms as most of them wouldn't think about it being a problem and just attend the appointment to progress their claim  

If I was you, I would inform them of this and say you cannot do it and ask form it to be rearranged, they have to make reasonable adjustments. It's scary i do get that and i really do feel for you but like i said, if it was easy then everyone would be abusing it who isn't entitled 

VillageRepeat

Tronster said:

Hey there

This is gonna sound a little harsh but bear with me and I don't mean it this way at all

If it was easy, everyone would apply and be awarded it? There is a reason why these things are done a certain way. It's more to test a situation, but like when they ask you what medication you take and how much and how often, if you say you're forgetful. IT's to test IF you can do it and i would imagine this would be the same way

You've got to understand they get around 4-5mil applications a year, and around 600 staff to process them, that equates to around 40 applications 1 person has to process. So they don't have time to read in detail regarding this and make the adjustments... they should do it, but it doesn't work that way unfortunately  

This also allows them to catch out the people who are "Exaggerating" their symptoms as most of them wouldn't think about it being a problem and just attend the appointment to progress their claim  

If I was you, I would inform them of this and say you cannot do it and ask form it to be rearranged, they have to make reasonable adjustments. It's scary i do get that and i really do feel for you but like i said, if it was easy then everyone would be abusing it who isn't entitled 

This doesn't sound harsh at all, but i thank you for your sensitivity.

My problem is not that its not easy, my problem is it is so hard that i've put it off for 5 years and almost taken my life over it, at that point i think its difficult to the point of being counterproductive. Who is it then helping? Not to mention i'll have to go through this every few years and after 10+ years of having chronic symptoms, i may well need PIP to keep me afloat for a long time, as much as i will do what is in my power to break free. I survive at the moment on goodwill.

As poppy and others have said before, there is too much emphasis put on people faking illness to get on PIP. Its a small percentage. Anyone who would even try should probably be "entitled" to it to a degree because they must have a mental illness to think its a good idea, because even when you do get them, you still get looked upon like you are below human.

I'll have to work up the courage to change the appointment to a telephone or in-person visit if i want any chance at this. Whether i'll succeed at doing that i have no idea. Thank you for your time

poppy123456

VillageRepeat said:

As poppy and others have said before, there is too much emphasis put on people faking illness to get on PIP. Its a small percentage. Anyone who would even try should probably be "entitled" to it to a degree because they must have a mental illness to think its a good idea, because even when you do get them, you still get looked upon like you are below human.

I'm sorry but i don't ever recall saying anything of the sort.

You can ask for a paper based assessment and if this is possible they will do that. However, paper based assessment are rare and they don't always have enough of information to do this.

Hannah_Alumni

Hello @VillageRepeat

I just wanted to reach out as I was concerned about the process with your mental health. Have you got support around you? or are you in discussions with your GP to get any mental health help? I'd encourage you to do so if you haven't already. I'm so sorry the process has been so daunting for you. As Poppy said, you can have a paper based assessment. It may be worth asking is a video call assessment would be possible too? You can have someone with you if that would help. 

VillageRepeat

poppy123456 said:

VillageRepeat said:

As poppy and others have said before, there is too much emphasis put on people faking illness to get on PIP. Its a small percentage. Anyone who would even try should probably be "entitled" to it to a degree because they must have a mental illness to think its a good idea, because even when you do get them, you still get looked upon like you are below human.

I'm sorry but i don't ever recall saying anything of the sort.

You can ask for a paper based assessment and if this is possible they will do that. However, paper based assessment are rare and they don't always have enough of information to do this.

Fair enough. I have seen it said by prominent members of this forum in response to people citing that a majority of people applying for benefits are trying to fraud the system, and i believe and wrote it in good faith that i saw you said it before during the 6 month period where i have searched up questions and concerns across this forum. i apologise if i have put your name to something 1) You didn't say and/or 2) Do not agree with

If i remember correctly, in-home visits are a thing, aren't they? It seems to be the perfect medium because although it'll be terrible for me mentally, it's much better than having to push myself physically and having to be around unnecessary people and everything else. Is it worth asking for that first? Thank you for your time

poppy123456

VillageRepeat said:

poppy123456 said:

VillageRepeat said:

As poppy and others have said before, there is too much emphasis put on people faking illness to get on PIP. Its a small percentage. Anyone who would even try should probably be "entitled" to it to a degree because they must have a mental illness to think its a good idea, because even when you do get them, you still get looked upon like you are below human.

I'm sorry but i don't ever recall saying anything of the sort.

You can ask for a paper based assessment and if this is possible they will do that. However, paper based assessment are rare and they don't always have enough of information to do this.

Fair enough. I have seen it said by prominent members of this forum in response to people citing that a majority of people applying for benefits are trying to fraud the system, and i believe and wrote it in good faith that i saw you said it before during the 6 month period where i have searched up questions and concerns across this forum. i apologise if i have put your name to something 1) You didn't say and/or 2) Do not agree with

Please do quote where i actually said that. What i've actually said many times in the past is quite the opposite as in " very few people claim benefits fraudently" Having had 10 years of personal experience myself and many years of benefits knowledge covering the majority of benefits i would never ever say this.

VillageRepeat

poppy123456 said:

VillageRepeat said:

poppy123456 said:

VillageRepeat said:

As poppy and others have said before, there is too much emphasis put on people faking illness to get on PIP. Its a small percentage. Anyone who would even try should probably be "entitled" to it to a degree because they must have a mental illness to think its a good idea, because even when you do get them, you still get looked upon like you are below human.

I'm sorry but i don't ever recall saying anything of the sort.

You can ask for a paper based assessment and if this is possible they will do that. However, paper based assessment are rare and they don't always have enough of information to do this.

Fair enough. I have seen it said by prominent members of this forum in response to people citing that a majority of people applying for benefits are trying to fraud the system, and i believe and wrote it in good faith that i saw you said it before during the 6 month period where i have searched up questions and concerns across this forum. i apologise if i have put your name to something 1) You didn't say and/or 2) Do not agree with

Please do quote where i actually said that. What i've actually said many times in the past is quite the opposite as in " very few people claim benefits fraudently" Having had 10 years of personal experience myself and many years of benefits knowledge covering the majority of benefits i would never ever say this.

Hello again Poppy!

If you were to have had a differing viewpoint to me i still would not be able to quote this to you. Your profile is hidden and you are a serial-contributor to this forum (Much to my delight). In this case, it seems that we have just misunderstood each other. The point you say you make regarding the matter is precisely what i was quoting you of having said:

You just said "very few people claim benefits fraudently".

This is what i said: "As poppy and others have said before, there is too much emphasis put on people faking illness to get on PIP. Its a small percentage." We agree! It's just a misunderstanding as i worded it differently. Thank you for your time.

poppy123456

Ah i see, then my appologies for the misunderstanding! I'll put it down to the hot weather where i am.

nasturtium

Jello VillageRepeat

My strong advice is to telephone the assesment agency (not the DWP) and explain in detail why you cannot have a "Face to face" assessment. Then explain to them "as a reasonable adjustment" under the Equalities Act 2010 section 20 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/20 you want to have a paper based assessment and if there is not enough personal written anacdotal evidence to make a descision the you are willing to have a telephone assessment. I understand that you cannot talk on the phone but you need to weigh up with is the better option event though both are bad for you. Would sitting in the comfort of your own home in a room you feel safe in be better than going to a strange building not knowing what will happen or who you will see?

I helped someone with this in November 2022. You might find the thread of some help. Here it is https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/98094/booked-for-face-to-face-assessment

Hope that helps

Please keep us updated.

Nasturtium

JBS2022

I would ask for a telephone assessment, I'm kinda surprised they aren't doing so anyway, since everyone I know of has had a phone assessment recently. 

VillageRepeat

JBS2022 said:

I would ask for a telephone assessment, I'm kinda surprised they aren't doing so anyway, since everyone I know of has had a phone assessment recently. 

Frustratingly, and in a way i believe is self-sabotaging, IAS are keen to bring back face-to-face assessments, and proudly advertise this on the site. Despite the fact that things were actually moving with the use of telephone appointments and that in my opinion, they allow a more accurate picture to be shared as people are a lot more unstressed. I don't think it matters that you're not there to dance for them, i would refuse anyway, it's not indicative of anything.

VillageRepeat

nasturtium said:

Jello VillageRepeat

My strong advice is to telephone the assesment agency (not the DWP) and explain in detail why you cannot have a "Face to face" assessment. Then explain to them "as a reasonable adjustment" under the Equalities Act 2010 section 20 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/20 you want to have a paper based assessment and if there is not enough personal written anacdotal evidence to make a descision the you are willing to have a telephone assessment. I understand that you cannot talk on the phone but you need to weigh up with is the better option event though both are bad for you. Would sitting in the comfort of your own home in a room you feel safe in be better than going to a strange building not knowing what will happen or who you will see?

I helped someone with this in November 2022. You might find the thread of some help. Here it is https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/98094/booked-for-face-to-face-assessment

Hope that helps

Please keep us updated.

Nasturtium

Thank you for your detailed reply. I will try for a telephone assessment as i can manage it with a lot of notes, though i really won't be telling the assessor anything that isn't already written down. Just would like to check with you though, are in-home visits a thing? Maybe its a false memory. And are they good ideas?

You are right of course. I knew this would be a tough fight and at the moment its my only shot at independence and a decent life. I just expected that having given so much detailed information and examples, the next step would be easier. I probably should not have assumed that.

Hannah_Alumni

@VillageRepeat Let us know how the call goes!  

2oldcodgers

VillageRepeat said:

poppy123456 said:

VillageRepeat said:

poppy123456 said:

VillageRepeat said:

As poppy and others have said before, there is too much emphasis put on people faking illness to get on PIP. Its a small percentage. Anyone who would even try should probably be "entitled" to it to a degree because they must have a mental illness to think its a good idea, because even when you do get them, you still get looked upon like you are below human.

I'm sorry but i don't ever recall saying anything of the sort.

You can ask for a paper based assessment and if this is possible they will do that. However, paper based assessment are rare and they don't always have enough of information to do this.

Fair enough. I have seen it said by prominent members of this forum in response to people citing that a majority of people applying for benefits are trying to fraud the system, and i believe and wrote it in good faith that i saw you said it before during the 6 month period where i have searched up questions and concerns across this forum. i apologise if i have put your name to something 1) You didn't say and/or 2) Do not agree with

Please do quote where i actually said that. What i've actually said many times in the past is quite the opposite as in " very few people claim benefits fraudently" Having had 10 years of personal experience myself and many years of benefits knowledge covering the majority of benefits i would never ever say this.

Hello again Poppy!

If you were to have had a differing viewpoint to me i still would not be able to quote this to you. Your profile is hidden and you are a serial-contributor to this forum (Much to my delight). In this case, it seems that we have just misunderstood each other. The point you say you make regarding the matter is precisely what i was quoting you of having said:

You just said "very few people claim benefits fraudently".

This is what i said: "As poppy and others have said before, there is too much emphasis put on people faking illness to get on PIP. Its a small percentage." We agree! It's just a misunderstanding as i worded it differently. Thank you for your time.

Completely fraudulently, yes a very small percentage. Exaggeration is common, but is that fraud? 

poppy123456

Home assessments no longer exist and haven't since 2020. Telephone assessments replaced them.

VillageRepeat

Hello people, just dropping an update.

I would like to thank everyone for the time they have taken replying to this and offering advice. I have developed a plan to reliably communicate what i need to say, but i am still building up the courage to make the call.

I have found it incredibly tough to advocate for myself, dealing with crushing symptoms i still struggle to accept already defeats me on a regular basis, and to have so much pushback when you are someone in that who is reaching out for help but also being someone that regularly gaslights themselves into betlitting and underplaying their struggles, (made easy by the fact that i regularly forget them and only really know how i feel overall, in the moment i am asked) has not made it easy.

Fighting this battle is probably one of the most pivitol events that are going to happen in my life, allowing me to become independent (if successful) and therefore giving me a shot at being something, and being able to afford things like regular, unprescribed medications that would help me but that i can rarely buy and quite a bit more. This isn't the first post i have made about my process and i would just like to thank everybody for their continued support, giving me valuable knowledge and a sense that atleast someone cares.

Hannah_Alumni

We do care @VillageRepeat I cannot wait to hear updates when you've made the call.

I know exactly where you are coming from as I have felt the same before. I concluded that being an adult sucks 😂

But, I found that although I needed to gain more independence that didn't mean I couldn't reach out for help. Talking therapies helped me a lot. I found it a safe space to vent and I found I could see clearly after getting it off my chest. You can refer yourself for them at any point, if you feel they would be beneficial. 

nasturtium

Good Luck with the Call VillageRepeat.

I am 100% sure you will be ok. Remember the advice and information you have been given above.

I am sure you will be ok

Nasturtium

VillageRepeat

I made the call! It was very hard but after listening back to the call, it seemed like the person did sort of care, although i can see exactly how human error means in assessments and the like lead to an inaccurate picture of what you actually said.

I prepared notes to read off of because i specifically have trouble remembering and thinking clearly (brainfog as some of you might know it as) Which talked about both my physical and psychological reasoning for not being able to attend a physical, face-to-face assessment. They wrote down the request for the change being "mental health issues". This doesn't bother me but in doing so they cut out the other half of the reason entirely, which is actually just as limiting as the other.

The helpline people for these assessment services aren't the most compassionate or delicate, but they certainly aren't your enemy. I got no interrogative pushback as i've been conditioned in my life experiences, to expect.

It was also interesting to learn that the IAS tried to give me a paper based assessment but the person on the phone told me they couldn't because of my physical issues, which is a bit confusing since its detailed just as much as my mental health struggles on the PIP2 form, and just as impactful.

nasturtium

Great to hear you made the call. I knew you could do it

You did not mention if they changed your assessment from face to face to a telephone assessment? Have they done this for you?

Nasturtium