PIP stopped after 17 years in receipt

ladyluck

I’m sure you have helped and advised many people Poppy. I’m just saying MR shouldn’t be described as a negative thing. Think about it, if thousands decide a poor outcome is the result, they will give up. That’s thousands of people giving up. We should all be saying ‘go for it’ because it leads to tribunal if not successful, and the  figures for acceptance  there are much higher. Surely the message from dwp is that the figures are low for a reason.  It’s a  deterrent, we shouldn’t push that forward by constantly saying the figures are low. That translates to ‘maybe not worth it’  but see MR as a stepping stone, good or bad. And for me  and a few friends, MR was extremely positive. 

poppy123456

I have never advised anyone not to proceed further!! I tell them the success is low because it is and I’m not the only person to give this exact advice either. I also advise them then they can proceed to Tribunal if they want to!

Ive never implied “ it won’t be worth it” so I have no idea why you are suggesting that! 

I’m fed up of some members this week of having a go at me for no apparent reason. For this reason I won’t respond any further to your comments. 

chiarieds

No one has ever said don't do a MR, nor described it in a negative way, in fact people are encouraged to do this, & appeal to a Tribunal if needed rather than giving up, or applying for PIP again at a later stage. You have no way of knowing why people withdraw their claims, any more than I have, & everything here is done to support people at every stage, including what is most helpful to put in a MR, it being better to put it in writing, etc.

You can give people too much info as well, so sometimes it's better to try & help one stage at a time.

My award was also increased with a MR, but that's all it is, my personal experience. We do have to be aware of the actual statistics too, or people could just as likely give up if their MR remained unchanged thinking they didn't have a chance.

I'm sorry you also say, 'I don’t tend to agree with some on here giving advice.' Hmmm, not that you disagree with any 'advice', but 'some on here giving advice.' How do you think that makes poppy feel who has helped thousands of people over the past 6 years? I know it upsets me, who only gives a fraction of the advice poppy does....

ladyluck

If you read back to my comments, Poppy, I didnt say that at all. I said quoting a low rate of success makes a person, a vulnerable person, feel it ‘isn’t worth it’, at no point did I say that you said that, but I’m sorry that’s how you’ve read it.  In actual fact, a low success rate being mentioned  stops people  going further. Do please read my comments through. Very sorry to hear you decline to speak to me, I find that quite strange for an advice giver not wanting to hear others’ point of view. Instead read back what I have said please. I’m very surprised you thought I was ‘ having a go’ at you. I was merely stating my thoughts and experiences, which, obviously, you don’t agree with. 

lillipeth

Poppy i know you’re not going up reply any more on this post but I just want to say I have never seen you say don’t bother or anything else negative, you are simply reporting the facts that MOST mr will not change the award. That is the truth. It is a fact. Why give people false hope. It’s been made very clear by you and others, that this step must be done before the tribunal step, you have given positive statistics at the success rate of tribunals. Sometimes forums posts and texts messages etc course more problems because it is an impersonal comment without the body language needed to fully understand the meaning, if that makes sense lol anyway I’m very sorry for anyone needing to go to mr or tribunal because of the shocking state of the whole pip process and I hope you all get the results you want x

poppy123456

Thanks @lillipeth I appreciate that! 

chiarieds

And thank you from me too @lillipeth - I know how much poppy helps people, & how much it matters to her.

ladyluck

Hey chiarieds- I’m well aware Poppy has given lots of advice and helped people on here. I’m sure she has many people who are grateful to her, I’ve had her good advice myself. When I mentioned ‘ some advice given’ I meant everyone, we can’t always agree with everyone.  As for ‘having a go’ that wasn’t my intention either. Like you ,my point was to make MR a positive step as it was for me, and you. Even if it was refused, it would lead to a tribunal whereby an independent adjudicator could decide, and the decision rate is very positive. It’s quite obvious DWP don’t want tens of thousands of tribunals, hence success at MR level is low. That point should be made. As I’ve only engaged on here today because of ill health for the last two weeks, I’m  indeed very sorry if others’ have upset her this week. I can assure you, that wasn’t my intention at all. 

chiarieds

It's good you realise how much help poppy has given, but if you look back, I haven't misquoted you, as you said, 'I don’t tend to agree with some on here giving advice.' No, members will not always agree, but that's not what you implied, do you see?

You say, 'It’s quite obvious DWP don’t want tens of thousands of tribunals, hence success at MR level is low.' Sorry, but that doesn't make sense; if the DWP actually didn't want tens of thousands of tribunals, then surely MRs would be more successful....so how can the point you suggest be made?

Yes, unfortunately those here that try to help to the best of their ability can be upset by negativity, whereas the occasional, 'thank you' is appreciated so very much. We're all disabled people trying to help each other as much as we can.

poppy123456

Ladyluck
You said you didn’t tend to agree with some on here giving advice. Then you started talking about the negative MR decision stats that are being quoted. I didn’t misread what you said. 

What you forgot about was all the other advice that’s given, that is positive.

I don’t understand your comment here.

ladyluck said:

. It’s quite obvious DWP don’t want tens of thousands of tribunals, hence success at MR level is low. 

If that was the case then the MR stats would be considerably higher. 

rmager

If they DWP was bothered about successful tribunals against it's DM's decisions, there would not even be a reconsideration that is mandatory (it would be the exception) and the awards would be correct first time save for lower % at tribunal. Fatal system error 

ladyluck

To Poppy and Chiarieds- I always say thank you  for good advice, I appreciate it. 
My comment about not agreeing with advice sometimes was general- we all give advice and our opinions on here, some we agree with, some we don’t. That is the nature of being an individual. We don’t always agree. 

What I meant by MR being a positive step, not negative because of low acceptance rates, was just that. Many people give up at the first rejection. All figures quoted don’t include withdrawn claims. Very sorry that others have upset Poppy, I certainly never meant to. 

I will leave the discussion now.

chiarieds

You can view the statistics here about claims, including withdrawn claims: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-april-2023/personal-independence-payment-statistics-april-2013-to-april-2023

Allan40

poppy123456 said:

Thanks @lillipeth I appreciate that! 

I have read a lot of posts on here I think poppy is awesome 

poppy123456

Allan40 said:

poppy123456 said:

Thanks @lillipeth I appreciate that! 

I have read a lot of posts on here I think poppy is awesome 

Thank you, that's very kind of you!

flour

@rmager

It is very much possible to sue as people have done it in the past and won!

One woman sued Atos (assessor) not the DWP and was awarded £2'500 in additional compensation (on top of any PIP award)

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/10-march-2021-update 

.woodbine said:

Many many people have a good experience of PIP and positive outcomes DLA and PIP are completely different benefits and I'm not sure what you expect to gain from legal action?

I expect that @rmager is hoping to feel redress because of being harmed by a system. Suing/compensation is about putting people back in the situation they were before things went wrong. having to go without income you needed means a lower standard of living or in some cases getting in to debt. It is very reasonable and people/organisations/companies sue government departments all the time. It isn't any different for an individual claiming benefits. We tend to focus more on getting the award back through tribunal but there is room  to look beyond just that in to additional compensation.

rmager said:

Then I've got to make complex legal arguments alone in a thrifty way. Anyone here knowing anything about next steps I'd be grateful for any tips or suggestions. 

I don't know a lot but I'm happy to come on and follow your progress when I can and offer any help or suggestions.

I think a starting point is that you need to have your PIP awarded first by the tribunal and once you've got PIP, which is your proof you should be on it and they were wrong. Then can you consider taking further action?

This could include complaining all the way up the ladder to the ICE. Who can award compensation. Or, small claims as the woman who took Atos to court successfully did.

Some further reading which may be helpful

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/social-security-complaints/

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum/10-dla-esa-queries-results/111331-legal-action-against-the-dwp-is-possible?

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/august/capita-takes-legal-action-stop-compensation-payment-ordered-after-pip-claimants

And, in addition, please try and not to take some of the posts on the thread too personally. You have your own circumstances to consider and its reasonable to feel the way you do. The most important thing is to make sure you have a clear plan and equally sometimes the plan can actually be not to do anything but to have been well informed about the process to make a decision your happy with.