Transitional protection confusion — Scope | Disability forum
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Transitional protection confusion

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Andiee
Andiee Community member Posts: 1 Listener
I was claiming tax credits including disabled child addition [sorry if that name is wrong I don't remember all the terminology]. 

I got a letter inviting me to claim universal credit and it explains that the amount I receive will be protected under transitional protection and I'm glad as the disabled part is less on UC. 

My claim for UC began on 28th August and I'm trying to work out how much I'll get but my situation makes it complicated and the transitional protection adds to confusion. Benefit calculators don't work as they don't account for transitional protection. 

My daughter is 16 but is not continuing education so technically my tax credits should end on 1st September. However as my UC was started before that transitional protection should mean I get the same that I did from tax credits. How does that work and how will they calculate my claim? 

Comments

  • bg844
    bg844 Community member Posts: 3,887 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 2023
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    Although it does say you won't be worse off (which for the average person is correct), your daughter no longer continuing in education will remove any elements for them (including any disabled elements received for her). 

    They will calculate your award based on your other circumstances. This includes wages, sickness, partners and so on.

    Any DLA/PIP continues as normal and is paid separately, these are not means-tested.

    What's the situation with your daughter now too? Will she be unfit for work?
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 964 Pioneering
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    Hi Andiee, 

    There is no Transitional Protection (TP) under UC, only transitional payments which Neil Couling calls 'compensation'



  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,279 Disability Gamechanger
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    WhatThe said:

    Hi Andiee, 

    There is no Transitional Protection (TP) under UC, only transitional payments which Neil Couling calls 'compensation'




    That's not correct, it's still known as TP. See link. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/completing-the-move-to-universal-credit/completing-the-move-to-universal-credit--2#transitional-protection

    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,279 Disability Gamechanger
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    Andiee said:
    I was claiming tax credits including disabled child addition [sorry if that name is wrong I don't remember all the terminology]. 

    I got a letter inviting me to claim universal credit and it explains that the amount I receive will be protected under transitional protection and I'm glad as the disabled part is less on UC. 

    My claim for UC began on 28th August and I'm trying to work out how much I'll get but my situation makes it complicated and the transitional protection adds to confusion. Benefit calculators don't work as they don't account for transitional protection. 

    My daughter is 16 but is not continuing education so technically my tax credits should end on 1st September. However as my UC was started before that transitional protection should mean I get the same that I did from tax credits. How does that work and how will they calculate my claim? 

    UC is based on your circumstances on the last day of your assessment period. As you started your claim on 28th August, your AP will be 28th to 27th of every month. There will be no child element included for your daughter at all because by the time you reach the last day of your AP your daughter will have already left FTE.

    Had you started your UC 1 month earlier then it would have been different.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 964 Pioneering
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    Ok, it does still exist but will be scarcely applied because practically any enquiry to DWP is treated as a CoC 

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,279 Disability Gamechanger
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    WhatThe said:

    Ok, it does still exist but will be scarcely applied because practically any enquiry to DWP is treated as a CoC 


    How do you know it scarcely applies? There will be many people that will be entitled to TP when they first claim UC as part of managed migration.

    No enquiry leads to a change of circumstances and to imply it does, is wrong and misleading. No one is automatically placed onto UC, you need to apply yourself.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Hannah_Alumni
    Hannah_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,912 Disability Gamechanger
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    Hello @WhatThe

    With Universal Credit, there is a section specifically for changes of circumstances. I enquired on my journal many times about many instances with wanting to go back to work or what support there could be if I started my own business. All my enquires were never treated as a change of circumstance until I reported it as one. 

    @Andiee I see Poppy shared the link for transactional protection which I'd encourage you to read. I also wanted to check in as I know these big changes to benefits can be a anxiety inducing or stressful. Have you got support around you? 
    Hannah - She / Her

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  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 964 Pioneering
    edited September 2023
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    Thanks Hannah, 

    My records show heaps of 'reported' changes of circumstances which I did not make whilst in receipt of IB and ESA. 

    I watched the Select Committee's grilling of Neil Couling where he admits that compensation will be paid in lieu of TP 


  • Hannah_Alumni
    Hannah_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,912 Disability Gamechanger
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    Sorry that happened with your situation. Can you remember or if you have the date of the select committee as they are usually recorded and my friend would be interested in see it :) 
    Hannah - She / Her

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  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 964 Pioneering
    edited September 2023
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    Hi Hannah,

    I did first check my notebooks for a date (watched it live), can't find it but would guess 2 to 3 years ago or just before lockdown. 

    IT is very taxing for me so I am relying on someone else to corroborate what I've said, yes, thank you! 

    Ok! I do have a good memory and found this in my diary... 

    16 March 2020 Lords UC Committee broadcast (meeting 10th March)


  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 964 Pioneering
    edited September 2023
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    Of course there are brand new regulations mentioning TP. Of course there are because new regs flow all the time! 

    As far as I can tell, UC is still just a series of trial/pilot schemes to double down on the original National Reassessment Programme (2011-14)

    Under UC, we become disabled job-seekers rather than vulnerable claimants with proven incapacity 
     
     
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 964 Pioneering
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    (b) Previously the Department were following a step by step iterative approach – does that original philosophy still hold? Yes. The Department is determined to go at a pace that allows us to learn to transition to different phases properly. The pace in the discovery phase will be careful and considered, as with small volumes one can slow down, stop, and correct. [Redacted]. 

    (c) How does the gradual, iterative approach work with the political pressure to get through the massive transitional caseload? If there was a way to go faster whilst still making sure the system works that would be the approach. [Redacted]. The Senior Responsible Officer’s (SRO’s) view is that 2024 is still a reasonable target. The SRO would be content to regularly update SSAC during this process. 

    (d) What are the key lessons learned from the Harrogate trial? There was originally a three-phase plan – first Jobseeker’s Allowance cases (JSA), then Housing Association (HA), then Tax Credit cases. The JSA cases were underway, and the HA were about to start when lockdown happened. The main learning from the JSA cohort was that claimants are anxious about moving to UC. Personal contact helped address negative preconceptions and informed claimants when payments would fall in the calendar which helped claimants understand when best to make their UC claim within the period they are required. There were very few TP cases, but the people in this cohort were less likely to have a lower entitlement on UC. It is not possible to move individuals across to UC or set up a gateway to identify them by using data from the legacy systems. It would take years of system development and would still be unreliable. People need to participate, and clean data is essential. Also, whilst it may be perceived that the JSA cohort are simpler on paper, they often had complex lives and the cases contained much complexity. 

    (e) Are the learnings from the huge pandemic claimant increase and the Harrogate pilot transferable to the ESA and Tax Credit cohorts? The experience so far is that tax credit claimants are reluctant to engage with UC and DWP, they don’t like the brand, they see it as a jobcentre experience. The issue therefore is how can it not be like a jobcentre experience? More must be done on communications, to build confidence with current legacy benefit claimants. The changes to the taper rate and work allowances introduced after the Budget will help as they do mean that a large majority of tax credit claimants will be better off on UC. 

    (f) A particular concern of SSAC in 2018 was that the risk of a failed transition was borne by the claimant. With that in mind is the 2024 a target or a commitment? The Universal Credit (Transitional Provisions) Amendment Regulations 2022 (SI 2022/****) 37 It doesn’t help running all the different legacy benefit and IT systems, so the sooner we can complete the move to UC the better [Redacted]. It is a Manifesto commitment to complete the UC move. Initiating all transfers by the end of 2024 is a valid target, subject to not being impacted by other policy priorities or external events. 

    (g) One of the commitments in 2018 was to explore automatic transfers of claims – has DWP explored any options since? Automatic transfer is not impossible, but it is very hard. One area where there is some possibility is on tax credits – aspects of HMRC tax credit claims may be able to be used to build UC claims. We had previously planned to test this before the pilot was paused. We want to explore with HMRC if there is scope for certain information to be ported across. 



  • Hannah_Alumni
    Hannah_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,912 Disability Gamechanger
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    Will let her know it was just before lockdown! Thanks :) 
    Hannah - She / Her

    Online Community Coordinator @ Scope

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  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 964 Pioneering
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    Hello Scope,

    Please explain why you removed my next post of the UC 2022 TP Regulations relating to Tax Credits 




  • Hannah_Alumni
    Hannah_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,912 Disability Gamechanger
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    It was caught in the spam filter @WhatThe
    Hannah - She / Her

    Online Community Coordinator @ Scope

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  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 964 Pioneering
    edited September 2023
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    I can't imagine why but please don't tell me!

    Copying and pasting is so hard for me and now I have to find it again   :(

    Can you restore my post?

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 964 Pioneering
    edited September 2023
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    2022 UC TP Regs 

     (d) What are the key lessons learned from the Harrogate trial? There was originally a three-phase plan – first Jobseeker’s Allowance cases (JSA), then Housing Association (HA), then Tax Credit cases. The JSA cases were underway, and the HA were about to start when lockdown happened. The main learning from the JSA cohort was that claimants are anxious about moving to UC. Personal contact helped address negative preconceptions and informed claimants when payments would fall in the calendar which helped claimants understand when best to make their UC claim within the period they are required. There were very few TP cases, but the people in this cohort were less likely to have a lower entitlement on UC. It is not possible to move individuals across to UC or set up a gateway to identify them by using data from the legacy systems. It would take years of system development and would still be unreliable. People need to participate, and clean data is essential. Also, whilst it may be perceived that the JSA cohort are simpler on paper, they often had complex lives and the cases contained much complexity.

    (e) Are the learnings from the huge pandemic claimant increase and the Harrogate pilot transferable to the ESA and Tax Credit cohorts? The experience so far is that tax credit claimants are reluctant to engage with UC and DWP, they don’t like the brand, they see it as a jobcentre experience. The issue therefore is how can it not be like a jobcentre experience? More must be done on communications, to build confidence with current legacy benefit claimants. The changes to the taper rate and work allowances introduced after the Budget will help as they do mean that a large majority of tax credit claimants will be better off on UC.

    (f) A particular concern of SSAC in 2018 was that the risk of a failed transition was borne by the claimant. With that in mind is the 2024 a target or a commitment? The Universal Credit (Transitional Provisions) Amendment Regulations 2022 (SI 2022/****) 37 It doesn’t help running all the different legacy benefit and IT systems, so the sooner we can complete the move to UC the better [Redacted]. It is a Manifesto commitment to complete the UC move. Initiating all transfers by the end of 2024 is a valid target, subject to not being impacted by other policy priorities or external events.

    (g) One of the commitments in 2018 was to explore automatic transfers of claims – has DWP explored any options since? Automatic transfer is not impossible, but it is very hard. One area where there is some possibility is on tax credits – aspects of HMRC tax credit claims may be able to be used to build UC claims. We had previously planned to test this before the pilot was paused. We want to explore with HMRC if there is scope for certain information to be ported across.


  • Hannah_Alumni
    Hannah_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,912 Disability Gamechanger
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    I'm afraid the only comment caught was the one above starting (b).

    As the comment got caught there may have been a glitch. I've been looking on the system and cannot see another comment from you.
    Hannah - She / Her

    Online Community Coordinator @ Scope

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  • Adeline
    Adeline Community member Posts: 141 Pioneering
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    @WhatThe are you thinking about the SDP compensation payments? Transitional protection is different to that WhatThe said:

    Ok, it does still exist but will be scarcely applied because practically any enquiry to DWP is treated as a CoC 

    that's not true I ask them questions all the time and pose situations to them. They rarely give a correct answer but it has never been treated as a change of cirucmstance 

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