Apparently I’m a liar!

Carlosos

I applied for pip and have filled in the forms correctly and had the video assessment. I’ve now had the decision and it basically says to every point I made this. 

“You have said you cannot walk 200 meters. In my opinion you can walk 200 meters”
”you have said you cannot prepare a meal. In my opinion you can prepare a meal”

this goes on for every one of the points to then award me 0 points 

no explanation apart from saying that I was lucid on the video call. 

I just don’t get how they can straight up call me a liar on every point. 

My condition is currently medically unexplained symptoms but it has been ongoing for 2 and half years. I’m still being investigated by the consultants at my local hospital. 

Carlosos

Thanks for that. I actually rang today to request the report but I was having a bad episode due to my symptoms and fell asleep waiting for them to answer! Grrr. 

Just to stick to the walking one. I said I cannot walk at because most of the time I cannot walk whatsoever I am basically a meat bag sat on the sofa due to pains and symptoms. I said that in the report and said that to the assessor. I don’t have any proof as such because I don’t have a diagnosis but they do have a letter from my consultant saying I’ve told them I struggle with any walking.  

All they said in the decision was “ you said you can’t walk 200 meters but in my opinion you can walk 200 meters” it’s just bizarre to treat people like that. 

Like you said the full report might reveal more but it’s honestly effort I could do without making.  

Carlosos

Thanks deppi that’s actually really helpful. Forums who knew! 

I may pop a couple more questions back on here when I get the report but thanks very much for responding.  

MW123

Hello Carlosos 

I received the same response to that question about walking 200 meters in my initial PIP assessment  back in 2018. I felt embarrassed and even offended, believing they were questioning my honesty when I first read it. However, upon reflection, I understood that it was merely the assessor's personal opinion, which can differ from objective reality. 

In my 2020 review, I received the same response again. Nevertheless, during that period I was approved for the standard daily living allowance. As a result, I decided not to dispute the assessment and left it unchanged. 

My recent 2023 review my health status mirrors that of my original application in 2018. This time around, I received an enhanced award for both daily living and mobility, thanks to seeking guidance from Scope members when completing the application.  In hindsight, I recognise that I had been overly focused on listing my symptoms, neglecting to provide a thorough account of how they profoundly impacted my daily life to align with the descriptors.

 

nasturtium

Hello Carlosos

You do not need the assessment report to do a Mandatory Reconsideration. You are not challenging the assessment report you are challenging the descision makers reasons for not giving you an award on the descision letter you recieved. The assessment report is only a guide for the descion maker and they can chose to ignor that report if your claim pack has sufficient personal written anacdotal evidence on your PIP2 Questionnaire form explaining why you cannot do the 12 PIP activities that apply to you safely, repeatedly, in a timely manor and to an acceptable standard according to the descriptors.

I have wrote a reply to another forum member explaining how to do a MR Letter that you might find useful here https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/733276/#Comment_733276

Do not telephone them to do your MR it is always advised to write a detailed MR Letter because that will be added to your claim pack and if you need to go to tribunal it will be used as evidence for your tribunal.

Hope that helps

Nasturtium

Carlosos

Thanks guys. I can see both sides of the argument but I am going to get the report and hope it arrives before I have to send my letter in for MR. Knowledge is always better than no knowledge.  

Carlosos

Does anyone know how long it takes for the assessors report to arrive? Can they send it by email? 

bg844

Carlosos said:

Does anyone know how long it takes for the assessors report to arrive? Can they send it by email? 

Up to 2 weeks although you should get it within a few working days. No, it's by post only.

Carlosos

Ta much. 

nasturtium

@Deppi Thank you for your reply and your respectful response it is most appreciated.

I stand by my opinion that you are challenging the descision makers letter and not the assessment report.

Yes it could be good to get the assessment report to see how the assessment was reported and what the descision maker read but the job of the descision maker is to look at ALL of the evidence in the Claimants claim pack and if there is not sufficient written personal anacdotal evidence on the PIP2 form then the descision maker would then rely on the assessment report to make there descision. That is why I always advise to compile a claim pack and do some research before you make your claim if the claimant is able to do that. That way they can compile a detailed accurate claim pack that would improve there chances of getting an award they are entitled to.

Deppi said:

@nasturtium Respectfully disagree.

My report wrote "said cant mix with people, however does mix daily with her son without problems"

That was copied pasted on my MR decision! And said therefore I think you can mix with people.

Like you said it was copied in your mandatory reconsideration descision letter which backs up what I was trying to advise. It is the descision letter you are challenging and not the assessment because the assessor is only giving there "opinion" based on the PIP2 Questionnaire form and the assessment and the descision maker can choose to ignor there "opinion" if the claim pack has stronger evidence that makes there "opinion" wrong.

I am not telling Carlosos too not to get the assessment report but not to focus on the assessment report because that would NOT get the Claimant a PIP Award they are entitled to.

If Carlosos does get the assessment report then I advise please put it to one side for your MR Letter and focus on why you cannot do the activities that apply to you safely, repeatedly, in a timely manor and to an acceptable standard.

If you can give some detailed real world events that have happened to you when you have tried to do the PIP activity. Explain in detail what happened, what went wrong, what were the consequences, who witnessed it if anyone did and what help you needed according to the descriptors.

If you do get the assessment report and you are not happy with the assessment then you can use the assessment report to chalenge the assessment and make an official complaint to the assessment providers. That is the only time that the assessment report is useful in my opinion.

Thank you for your comments Deppi I fully appreciate your thoughts and opinion. Please do not think I am having a go at you because I am not. I am just putting forward what in my opinion I think is correct advice and it is only advice so Carlosos is fully entlitled to ignor my advice if he chooses too.

Kind Regards

Nasturtium

onebigvoice

Sorry I didn't know what Lucid meant.

Lucid:
  showing or having the ability to think clearly, especially in intervals between periods of confusion or insanity:
 Isn't that a contridction of terms?
Only opinion, report should also show where they drew their conclusions from,  ask for the report.

poppy123456

Deppi said:

The decision is based on your form, supporting evidence and of course the assessment report. Did you ask for a copy of the assessment report? This may give you an insight why the decision maker made the decision they did.

While it should not be a "you wrote, but i said", without the report you cant MR, as you dont know which parts to strengthen. If you MR blind (without the report) they will come back copy pasting the report parts they based their decision.

Take the report first and find out what the assessor wrote. They may say things like "the applicant said he can walk for 3 minutes without stop" that would be more than 200 metres (its an example, i dont know the DWP time-to-distance, but there is one.

Start from asking from DWP to send you the report.

I disagree with that, sorry. You don’t need the assessment report to request the MR. By requesting the report you’re more likely to concentrate mostly on that, rather than on where and why you think you should have scored those points. Concentrating wholly on the report isn’t going to get anyone a PIP award. 

Deppi said:

Don't fight the report,

Yet in a previous comment you advised to request the report. 

Carlosos

Couldn’t request the report yesterday as was too poorly but put the request in this morning. They said it takes around 10 days but I’m hoping sooner. Will keep you updated. 

poppy123456

Deppi said:

Carlosos said:

Couldn’t request the report yesterday as was too poorly but put the request in this morning. They said it takes around 10 days but I’m hoping sooner. Will keep you updated. 

You're doing the right thing. It will help. All the people who say ignore it, make MR have low success.

Work with the report, use it as a tool, dont look to be offended by it. Study the enemy, prepare your case, dont fight it, go smooth on the counteroffensive.

I bot an offer, AFTER, their response to the tribunal. Because I worked this way and sent in more paperwork AFTER their response.

Hope what I say here makes sense. Its not my strong point passing the message across.

Again, i couldn't disagree more. Yes, it's fine to mention a couple of obvious errors or contradictions but then put the report to one side and forget about it. It will not get anyone a PIP award by concentratin wholly on it. If it gets to Tribunal (very likely) then HMCTS are already aware than many reports are flawed, they don't need to be reminded.

Carlosos

Thanks all for input it’s all valuable so I appreciate it. 

Anyway. It arrived! I can’t really Adam and Eve it but I asked for it yesterday morning and this morning it arrived in the post. 

Haven’t had chance to read it yet but I’ll report back. 

Jimm_Scope

Hey @Carlosos, you've already received a lot of advice so I'm not sure what else I can add. I will just say if you'd like to read more about MRs and potential steps after the MR, if needed, then I recommend reading Citizen's Advice PIP guide. You can see the MR section here.

Good luck with it all, keep us updated with how you get on It's not easy, but you can do it and get the award you deserve

Leigh14

Hi @Carlosos, I would like to add to also seek advice from @poppy123456, @chiarieds, @nasturtium. They really do know what they are talking about, and offer fantastic help.
Good luck with the MR.

Carlosos

Well I read the report and it’s very lacking in info. It basically says I can do everything but I’m a bit poorly and nothing more than that. It doesn’t talk about anything that i put in my first written application (even though we talked about those points lots). There are no points for me to address in the report. A bit confused as to how this process can be so blasé after I’ve told them how poorly I am. 

chiarieds

Hi @Carlosos - I'm sorry the report isn't what you'd hoped. Assessors give their opinion, & altho they might note what you've said, they form an opinion based on your claim form & assessment nonetheless. As mentioned above, you can do a Mandatory Reconsideration (MR), where another decision maker will look at everything again.

Do please now put this assessor's report to one side, & concentrate on where you should have got points & why as nasturtium & poppy have said, & I couldn't agree with them more. MW123 has also had the benefit of Scope member's advice, which they found helpful. Please take all of this into account.

As above, do please put your MR in writing; the points you need to address are those where you feel you should have got points, & why.

However poorly you are, & we all believe that, with PIP you do have to think about how this affects your ability to attempt/do any of the 12 PIP activities/descriptors that are applicable to yourself 'reliably.' 

So, please look at the PIP descriptors again: https://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/asset-library/personal-independence-payment-descriptors-and-scores-april-2023.pdf

Do please give a couple of recent, detailed examples as to the difficulty you face for each applicable descriptor, i.e. when did it happen, where, what exactly happened, did anyone see this, & were there any consequences to attempting/doing an activity? Again, as mentioned above. This brings your claim to life, as it will show the problems you, as an individual, face.
Say if you can't do an activity 'reliably,' which is safely, to an acceptable standard, repeat as often as one would reasonably expect, or if it takes you much longer than someone without a disability. See this mentioned at the end of the link above.
Put your name & National Insurance number on each page. Keep a copy, & get a free Certificate of Posting from your Post Office when sending it off.

Please come back with any questions.

Carlosos

Small update. I’ve written my letter and attached to the MR form and sent it back to dwp. I had until the 2nd of November so I’ve cut it close but couldn’t be helped as I’ve been quite poorly. What happens if they say they received it after the 2nd November? 

I basically addressed the “misunderstandings” in the reasoning they gave me for rejection and added some more meat to the descriptions to the 12 questions they ask. Hopefully that’s enough but I’m prepared to go to tribunal. Had another appointment with a new consultant and trying a stronger dose of meds and getting some more tests done to hopefully get diagnosed and fixed. Been poorly since 2020 so getting pretty fed up. 

chiarieds

I wouldn't worry too much, as you actually have up to 13 months in which to do a MR, tho you should give a good reason if it's late (after 1 month). My next door neighbour returned their MR with just a couple of days to spare. This seems to have been OK as they had a new decision maker ringing just to introduce themself & saying they would be looking at everything they'd sent in.