Advice on PCN

Marc3367
Marc3367 Online Community Member Posts: 6 Listener
My wife and I have recently been issued with a PCN for parking in a disabled bay with a 3 hour limit and forgetting to set the clock with the blue badge.
We were in the bay for 2 hours so did not exceed the time limit although admittedly did not set the clock. 
We have appealed to Staffordshire council twice but they will not reconsider the issue of the PCN.
our only option now is to go to a tribunal.
I have read on another forum that although the clock should be set it is not a legal requirement and not enforceable.
Can anyone advise whether it is in our interest to go to tribunal?
I do not understand why the clock needs to be set in a timed disabled bay. A non disabled driver has no clock to set when they park in a normal timed parking space, it’s up to the warden to evidence the vehicle has exceeded the time restriction. Why does this not apply to a disabled bay also.

Comments

  • 2oldcodgers
    2oldcodgers Posts: 739 Connected
    Marc3367 said:
    My wife and I have recently been issued with a PCN for parking in a disabled bay with a 3 hour limit and forgetting to set the clock with the blue badge.

    I do not understand why the clock needs to be set in a timed disabled bay. A non disabled driver has no clock to set when they park in a normal timed parking space, it’s up to the warden to evidence the vehicle has exceeded the time restriction. Why does this not apply to a disabled bay also.
    As you have pointed out you failed to set the 'clock' when parking in a time limited parking spot. There is a 3 hour limit but without the clock being set no one would know when you arrived. Secondly and like most regulated car parks, the failure to set the clock is by itself against the rules even though you only parked for 2 hours.
    Are you sure that there are no ANPR cameras monitoring the car park?

     
  • Marc3367
    Marc3367 Online Community Member Posts: 6 Listener
    It wasn’t a car park it was a disabled bay on the road.
  • WelshBlue
    WelshBlue Online Community Member Posts: 770 Championing
    edited October 2023
    I always thought the clock was to be set when parking on double yellows   :*

    As you point out non disabled parking on the street are only timed by CEO's when clocking for the first time then get booked if overstaying.

    I personally would consider Tribunal ... but be mindful if the appeal isn't succesful the PCN will be double what it would be if you pay now

    More research shows we're wrong ... if there's a time limit




  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,446 Championing
    Yes, you must use the clock if there’s a time limit. Having a BB doesn’t mean we can park anywhere for as long as we want to. 
  • Marc3367
    Marc3367 Online Community Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Yes, you must use the clock if there’s a time limit. Having a BB doesn’t mean we can park anywhere for as long as we want to. 
    Absolutely agree we cannot park where we want for as long as we want.
    The time limit was 3 hours and we were there for 2. 
    I am seeking to clarify if not using the clock can be enforced when we did not breach the 3 hour limit. The signage only stated the 3 hour limit with no other conditions.
    I appreciate it’s in the guidance of having a BB to use the clock but can it be enforced legally when we did not breach the time limit. 

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,446 Championing
    edited October 2023
    The issue you have is that how do they know you were only there for 2 hours? You could have been there for longer, for all they know. (i'm not saying you were)

    I genuinely do not to know the answer to your question but i would get some expert advice before proceeding any further because you could end up more out of pocket if you lose the appeal.
  • Marc3367
    Marc3367 Online Community Member Posts: 6 Listener
    I think we will have to get further advice.
    My argument is when general motorists park in timed bays they do not have any clocks to set but are also subject to a timed restriction. Such as 1hr parking no return for 2 hours. It’s up to the warden to evidence how long a car is in the bay, will say on PCN the times the car was observed between to evidence it exceeded the time limit. In our case they just saw the car and gave a ticket, why is a disabled bay any different. 


  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,446 Championing
    I don't usually do this but i'm going to redirect you to MSE forum for some advice. It's the parking tickets and fines section. You can find it here. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/parking-tickets-fines-parking there's some very knowledgeable people on there and hopefully they will be able to help you.

  • Marc3367
    Marc3367 Online Community Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Thank you Poppy for pointing us on the right direction. 
  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 908 Championing


    Hello Marc3367

    You have appealed to Staffordshire Council twice, and they have not reconsidered the issue of the PCN, and if you believe that your case has merit, your next step may indeed be to pursue the matter further by going to a tribunal. The relevant tribunal for parking-related matters is the Traffic Penalty Tribunal (TPT). 

    The tribunal will review the evidence and arguments presented and make a decision based on the merits of your case. Keep in mind that going to a tribunal can be a formal and time-consuming process. It's essential to follow the specific procedures outlined by the TPT and present a strong case to improve your chances of a successful outcome. 

    The decision to go to a tribunal ultimately depends on you and the specifics of your case, the evidence you have, and your personal judgment. In this situation, you have raised a valid point about the requirement to set a parking clock in a timed disabled bay compared to regular timed parking spaces. However, whether or not this argument would hold up in a tribunal depends on various factors, including local regulations, bylaws, and how those regulations are applied.

     

  • honestjon
    honestjon Online Community Member Posts: 173 Empowering
    Marc3367 said:
    My wife and I have recently been issued with a PCN for parking in a disabled bay with a 3 hour limit and forgetting to set the clock with the blue badge.
    We were in the bay for 2 hours so did not exceed the time limit although admittedly did not set the clock. 
    We have appealed to Staffordshire council twice but they will not reconsider the issue of the PCN.
    our only option now is to go to a tribunal.
    I have read on another forum that although the clock should be set it is not a legal requirement and not enforceable.
    Can anyone advise whether it is in our interest to go to tribunal?
    I do not understand why the clock needs to be set in a timed disabled bay. A non disabled driver has no clock to set when they park in a normal timed parking space, it’s up to the warden to evidence the vehicle has exceeded the time restriction. Why does this not apply to a disabled bay also.
    Hi i have been in a similar situation with a council refusing to cancel a pcn. I asked for discretion to be shown because the clock was not set but it was not a deliberate act designed to avoid complying with the rules.
    As a blue badge holder there are many reasons why discretion could and should be shown by the council in your situation.
    Rushing/ struggling to get to appointments,side effects of medications, etc etc there are so many reasons the pcn would be cancelled if the council would play fairly.
    I personally view it as an attack on the vulnerable members of society and I'm sure any tribunal would say it is unreasonable to refuse to cancel the pcn when the only issue is the clock was not set.
    Hope this helps.
  • Marc3367
    Marc3367 Online Community Member Posts: 6 Listener
    honestjon said:
    Marc3367 said:
    My wife and I have recently been issued with a PCN for parking in a disabled bay with a 3 hour limit and forgetting to set the clock with the blue badge.
    We were in the bay for 2 hours so did not exceed the time limit although admittedly did not set the clock. 
    We have appealed to Staffordshire council twice but they will not reconsider the issue of the PCN.
    our only option now is to go to a tribunal.
    I have read on another forum that although the clock should be set it is not a legal requirement and not enforceable.
    Can anyone advise whether it is in our interest to go to tribunal?
    I do not understand why the clock needs to be set in a timed disabled bay. A non disabled driver has no clock to set when they park in a normal timed parking space, it’s up to the warden to evidence the vehicle has exceeded the time restriction. Why does this not apply to a disabled bay also.
    Hi i have been in a similar situation with a council refusing to cancel a pcn. I asked for discretion to be shown because the clock was not set but it was not a deliberate act designed to avoid complying with the rules.
    As a blue badge holder there are many reasons why discretion could and should be shown by the council in your situation.
    Rushing/ struggling to get to appointments,side effects of medications, etc etc there are so many reasons the pcn would be cancelled if the council would play fairly.
    I personally view it as an attack on the vulnerable members of society and I'm sure any tribunal would say it is unreasonable to refuse to cancel the pcn when the only issue is the clock was not set.
    Hope this helps.
    Thank you Honestjon.

    What was the outcome of your PCN? 
    I also believe this is discrimination against disabled people. They have already got issues to contend with but have an extra burden of setting a clock in a timed bay which can easily slip their mind whilst a non disabled motorist can park in a timed bay with no clock to set.
    if we were using an exemption like double yellows then fair enough but it’s a disabled bay for disabled drivers so no Exemptions are being used.
  • honestjon
    honestjon Online Community Member Posts: 173 Empowering
    The pcn was eventually cancelled but like your situation the council tried to force payment.
    In your case I would argue it's not reasonable to expect you to pay for a genuine mistake that you have admitted to.
    Fines/penalties should be reserved only for those who are abusing the blue badge but it's a lot easier to target the vulnerable members of society to squeeze money from.
  • 2oldcodgers
    2oldcodgers Posts: 739 Connected
    honestjon said:
    The pcn was eventually cancelled but like your situation the council tried to force payment.
    In your case I would argue it's not reasonable to expect you to pay for a genuine mistake that you have admitted to.
    Fines/penalties should be reserved only for those who are abusing the blue badge but it's a lot easier to target the vulnerable members of society to squeeze money from.
    Yes Council's can be a hard nut to crack!

    I once parked on double yellows, had my clock and BB on display and within 10 mins had a ticket put on the windscreen as I watched from over the road.
    Seemingly I had parked less than 10 metres from a junction - in fact I roughly measured it and it was 8.5 metres.
    Bang to rights according to Google.
    That was an expensive shopping trip after paying the £75 fine.

  • Valler
    Valler Online Community Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Hi Everyone 
    I live on a red route in London & have been given several PCN the signage is so confusing.  But I have great difficulty in walking, I cannot walk long distances, unaided or without someone's help & have parked in a disable bay. 
    I have challenged them but been declined and wonder if it's worth appealing.
    But I can be picked up & dropped off. But I need help to get into my home safely.

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,446 Championing
    Valler said:
    Hi Everyone 
    I live on a red route in London & have been given several PCN the signage is so confusing.  But I have great difficulty in walking, I cannot walk long distances, unaided or without someone's help & have parked in a disable bay. 
    I have challenged them but been declined and wonder if it's worth appealing.
    But I can be picked up & dropped off. But I need help to get into my home safely.

    Do you have a blue badge to use with those disabled bays? 

    If not have you applied to your local Authority for one? If you don’t automatically qualify you need to make sure you send evidence to support your claim. https://www.gov.uk/apply-blue-badge