Esa 5

anthonyj1

Hi there everyone, hope everyone is good, been a while since I have been on here.

Just wondering if anyone has heard of/know what an esa5 form is? 

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

poppy123456

An ESA5 form is asking questions about pension income. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/645566/response/1531372/attach/9/ESA5.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Or do you mean the ESA3 form? If so then this is to assess for the Income Related top up for the old contributions based ESA. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/671651/response/1603301/attach/4/ESA3 0518.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

anthonyj1

Aww thank you Poppy. Recently sent in details to the DWP about occupational pension due to commence in November and how it will affect ESA

Rang the dwp and they said an esa 5 had been sent out and they didn't know what it was. So thank you very much for your help Poppy. You are so knowledgeable and helpful

poppy123456

You’re welcome. Good to see you posting and hope you’re well?! Apologies, only just realised it was you. 

I don’t know if you’re aware but if any of your ESA is Income Related your pension will reduce it £1 for £1.

If any part of it is contributions based then any pension of up to £85/week is ignored. There’s a 50p/week deduction in the ESA for every £1 over that amount. 

anthonyj1

Hi Poppy,  how are you doing?

Thanks for that. Have completed benefit calculations and it comes out that esa will reduce by £37.44 weekly.

This is based on lump sum of £15428 and weekly pension of £78.88

Can you tell me Poppy if this figure of £37.44 weekly deduction from income related ESA correct please? 

Many thanks

poppy123456

Feeling a little under the weather today with yet another sore throat. Thanks for asking.

If all of your ESA is Income Related then that calculation isn't correct because your ESA will reduce by the same amount as your pension.. £78.88/week.

A benefit calculator isn't the best thing to use in this situation because it won't be able to tell you what your ESA is made up of. Part of it could be contributions based, if it is then the deduction could be less.

Does your ESA include the Severe Disability Premium?

Did you get some expert advice before deciding to take a weekly/monthly drawdown from your pension?

anthonyj1

Hi Poppy, 

Sorry to hear you are unwell. So very grateful to you taking time out to reply to my posts.

No didn't take any advice prior to deciding 😳😳

So the monies I receive will basically stay the same? 

And do you know anything about paying off debts out off lump sum.and if the DWP will class it as deprivation of income? 

Hope you feel better soon. 

poppy123456

You're welcome. How much is deducted will depend on what your ESA claim is made up of and because i don't know that then i can't give you specific advice. As i previously said, if part of it is contributions based then this will continue (£129.50/week)

As for the lump sum, i read it last night as £1,428 but clearly that's incorrect as it's £15,428, apologies for not advising about that. ( i blame not feeling myself) If that amount brings your total savings to more than £16,000 then entitlement to all means tested benefits will end.

There's a £1/week deduction for every £250 or part thereof over £6,000.

If you're claiming Council Tax Reduction then some local Authorities have a maxium savings limit of £6,000 before entitlement ends. If you're claiming single person discount then this will continue, regardless of savings.

You will need to make sure you report the changes to ESA and your local Authority for the lump sum. (if you haven't already and the money is in your bank)

If part of your ESA is contributions based this isn't affected by any savings/capital and that will continue.

Paying off debt for legacy benefits unless the debt is immediately repayable because you're receiving letters of demand then it could be seen as deprivation of capial but it will be down to a decision maker to make the final decision on that.

Thanks for the kind words, also.

anthonyj1

Hi Poppy, 

Thanks again for your help. 

It is income related ESA and have sent proof of amount of pension lump sum snd weekly amount and also proof of debts being paid off.

The debts will be getting paid off as soon as lump sum payment is received.

Understand that this may be classed as deprivation of income, but if reduction of ESA happens, in the case of the DWP classing paying off the debts to be deprivation, the amount of reduction, as per benefit calculation, will be significantly less than the amounts having to pay each month off the debts.
Hope that makes sense

Couod you advise of what debts may/or could be deemed acceptable to pay off

Thanks Poppy. Hope you feel better soon

poppy123456

anthonyj1 said:

Understand that this may be classed as deprivation of income, but if reduction of ESA happens, in the case of the DWP classing paying off the debts to be deprivation, the amount of reduction, as per benefit calculation, will be significantly less than the amounts having to pay each month off the debts.
Hope that makes sense

It wouldn't be deprivation of income, it's capital. Yes, i totally understand that.

anthonyj1 said:

Couod you advise of what debts may/or could be deemed acceptable to pay off

Only debts that are immediately repayable because you're receiving letters of demand for payment. I can't give you any specific advice because it will be down to a decision maker to make the final decision.

I'd advise you to explain what you said here.

anthonyj1 said:

the amount of reduction, as per benefit calculation, will be significantly less than the amounts having to pay each month off the debts.

anthonyj1

Stated in the letter to them that struggling to pay debts and aware that esa entitlement may be affected by the amount of lump sum and weekly pension.

 Thanks Poppy for your invaluable knowledge and hope you feel better soon.

Will let you know the outcome

anthonyj1

Hi sgain Poppy, just saw that you asked about severe disability premium and yes this is included in Esa benefit

poppy123456

You're very welcome! Thanks for the SDP information. This means if your ESA is a single person claim in the Support Group then your total weekly amount will be £225.45. (£450.90/fortnight) Before deductions.

With a weekly pension of £78.88 your ESA will be reduced by this amount so your weekly ESA amount will be £146.57. (£293.14/fortnight) Even if part of your ESA is contributions based, you still have some entitlement to Income Related so you'll still be entitled to NHS free treatment and the final cost of living payment in 2024. (assuming they don't deduct anything further for the lump sum)

This means your total weekly income will be the same with the weekly pension as it was without it. It's a shame you didn't get some expert advice before drawing down the weekly pension because it does seem rather pointless to take that as it reduces your ESA £1 for £1. 

It would be worth looking into cancelling the weekly pension going forward, i don't know if it's possible for you to do that. I do know that cancelling the amount will not have a negative affect on your ESA and it will not be classed as depriving yourself of Income because you're under state pension age. A pension in a pot is ignored for all means tested benefits when you're under state pension age. You're not under any obligation to access that pension at this age.

*please note, i know you said all of it is Income Related but there's many people that think this but it is possible for part of it to be contributions based* It would have depending on your NI contributions in the 2 tax years prior to when you first claimed ESA.

anthonyj1

Thank you so much Poppy

Will ring the pension company tomorrow see if I can do as you suggested and leave the weekly payments and take a lump sum to pay off debts.

Also, the award letters have all stated income related so I took it that it is all income related and no contributions element. But is there a way I can check this? 

Thanls Poppy, your a diamond.

poppy123456

As always, you're welcome.

anthonyj1 said:

Also, the award letters have all stated income related so I took it that it is all income related and no contributions element. But is there a way I can check this? 

Yes, mostly they do, even the New style ESA letters will indicate they are Income Related, but that wouldn't be possible because New style is a contributions based benefit only. They are well known for making no sense at all.

You can find out by ringing ESA to ask what exactly your claim is made up of, whether part of it is contributions based or not. They will tell you.

To be honest, even if it was part contributions based, it wouldn't make any difference to the amount deducted for your weekly pension because your ESA includes the SDP.

anthonyj1

Hiya Poppy and all, I have rang the pension company and they have advised that any other option is not possible. Only way would be to defer it altogether. And dud to debts needing to be paid, unable to defer 😳😳


Sorry to hear of your own problems with your pension. It does get very frustating doesn't it!!!!

Albus_Scope

No problem @spb1612

anthonyj1

Hi Poppy and all, 
Hope everyone is well

Just to update everyone. I have now started to receive my works pension and I have had my ESA recalculated.

It has been reduced to £129.50 weekly (Poppy you were right, part of my ESA is contribution based, so wasnt reduced as much as it would have if my ESA was income related only.) 

However, they have not taken into account any debts I owed, and paid out of my lump sum of £15428, (they rounded it up to £15500)   

I have a couple of things I am unsure of and hoping Poppy or someone else can help.

I owed money on credit cards, catalogue, monies to family and a finance loan. Should or could any of these debts have been taken into consideration by the DWP decision maker and the amount of capital reduced accordingly?

I had to purchase new white goods for my home, oven, fridge freezer etc (catalogue and credit card used for these purchases) and the family members I owed money to, needed their monies back.

So any advice, if any debts could have been accepted as reasonable to pay and therefore amount of capital reduced accordingly by the decision maker please? 

Also, as they have calculated my new ESA rate,  based on £15500 savings/capital, does the amount of £15500 capital the DWP have set, ever reduce in respect of ESA payments or do they increase ESA payments over time? 

My housing benefit and council tax have also been affected.

So after paying off my debts, I am having to use my savings to make up for the reduction in my ESA payments and use it for the rent and council tax payments I now have to make.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks everyone

Warm Christmas Regards 

Amanda

poppy123456

For legacy benefits paying off debt is only usually acceptable if it's immediately repayable. Paying back family, unless you have a written official agreement to say that the money was a loan then it's unlikely a decision maker would accept that. 

However, i can't given specific advice because it's down to a decision maker to make the final decision on what maybe deprivation of capital (DoC) or not. The same applies to all means tested benefits. 

You can contact DWP and your local Authority to tell them about your savings and how much you have left and let a decision maker make that decision. You will likely be asked to send bank statements.

Your ESA payments are not classed as capital until the end of the period they are paid for.

anthonyj1

Thanks for your reply Poppy, but do they see the capital I have will be reducing by at least the money they are deducting from my ESA. 

Or will they keep my capital as £15500?

Thanks 

poppy123456

I’m afraid I can’t answer that question because I’m not a decision maker.