Why am i being punished for being disabled?

deb74

Thanks to being awarded 0 points on my pip assessment (which I have appealed against). I have lost everything. I have lost my pip, housing benefits and now my tax credits have stopped! I don't understand why the government think it is ok to leave us with nothing just because we are disabled. We do not choose to be disabled! Thanks to the pip assessor |I now have nothing to live on! By this time next week I will have run of money completely and won't be able to feed myself nevermind  being able to pay the bills!! I work for myself but don't earn anywhere enough to live on. I didn't even get a letter from the dwp telling me they were stopping my tax credits they just did it which surely is wrong!

poppy123456

Your PIP stopping shouldn’t have stopped your housing benefit. 

I don’t understand how your had a letter from DWP saying Tax Credits have stopped because they have nothing to do with this. Tax credits are administered from HMRC. 

You mention working so were you claiming Working Tax Credits? How many hours per week do you work? Do you have dependent children? 

durhamjaide2001

This might be the wrong category to put it in we have a special category that it goes in where Poppy will be able to see it better. I wonder if admins can move this into the right category. 

Albus_Scope

Thanks Jaide, I've moved the post into a different category.  

I'm sorry to hear things are tough for you right now @deb74, do you have anyone to support you with all of this? Hopefully the wonderful community will be able to help you here though. 

apple85

Your other benefits on paper should not of been stopped however I’ve read of a few times where this has wrongly and unfairly happened to others on this forum.

Poppy and myself have disagreed on the following before (btw poppy, your profile pic is so cute…..is he/she yours) but in my personal experience the dwp seem to judge more unfairly if they see them as ‘easier targets’ (by that I mean those with a lack of resources & support system, and less likely to push for an MR and/or tribunal as I’d imagine that’s a huge uphill struggle alone - those the dwp view as less likely to ‘fight’)

I imagine you are overwhelmed by this situation and I don’t want to overload you with questions or information so I’ll just start with the one for now

do you have an immediate support group (by that I mean a relative or close friend that may of helped you fill out the pip assessment form and/or was at the f2f/phone assessment) or are you alone in this

either way try and breathe if you can, solutions are much harder to carry out when you’re panicked 

it’s not the first time someone on this forum has gotten zero points on this forum and other members have been able to help them so I’m sure we can help you

poppy123456

@apple85 thanks, yes the cat in my pic is mine, his name is Alfie, he's a 10 year old Siamese.

chiarieds

apple85 said:

....in my personal experience the dwp seem to judge more unfairly if they see them as ‘easier targets’ (by that I mean those with a lack of resources & support system, and less likely to push for an MR and/or tribunal as I’d imagine that’s a huge uphill struggle alone - those the dwp view as less likely to ‘fight’)

I'd also wonder how the DWP could possibly know if a disabled claimant lacked resources, or know what support any such person might have.

@deb74 - have you not heard back about your MR yet, or are you now appealing to a tribunal?

Scope has a section on their main website, which hopefully is of some practical help: https://www.scope.org.uk/advice-and-support/help-with-bills-and-food/

apple85

chiarieds said:

apple85 said:

....in my personal experience the dwp seem to judge more unfairly if they see them as ‘easier targets’ (by that I mean those with a lack of resources & support system, and less likely to push for an MR and/or tribunal as I’d imagine that’s a huge uphill struggle alone - those the dwp view as less likely to ‘fight’)

I'd also wonder how the DWP could possibly know if a disabled claimant lacked resources, or know what support any such person might have.

@deb74 - have you not heard back about your MR yet, or are you now appealing to a tribunal?

Scope has a section on their main website, which hopefully is of some practical help: https://www.scope.org.uk/advice-and-support/help-with-bills-and-food/

You got a point so perhaps I need to reword that:

perhaps the dwp can’t tell when a person is alone or not but it’s very visible to them when a claimant has had more help than average or have access to a large amount of knowledge (going by my own personal experience only)

Sometimes people need an answer to something where there is no easy answers or reason to (and deb74 questions/statements are familiar ones) so I just offered a possible interpretation more than anything

it’s kind of hard to explain and I don’t want to say anything wrong - the great thing about this forum is there are so many knowledgeable people on this site and there’s not one single way to have a successful assessment or appeal.

I don’t think Deb74 mentioned if they had done an MR yet - but hopefully once they had a chance to read the responses on this thread they will feel more hopeful that someone can offer the right advice for them.


poppy - he looks so chilled……. I’m more of a dog person myself but I like cats (the pixie bob, ragdoll and savannahs being my favourite cat breeds!)

chiarieds

Hi @apple85 - deb74 said at the end of October, ''My pip was stopped 17th May and I have appealed against it but as yet haven't heard anything!'' The length of time since May made me wonder if they were now appealing to a tribunal, which was why I asked.

I'd suggest that generalisations based on your personal experience, as you are kind enough to say, perhaps are just that, your personal experience. Again, how would the DWP know if someone has accessed a large amount of knowledge, or not, or whether they'd had more help than average? How would that be gauged?

apple85

Sorry @chiarieds I didn’t read that quote from deb74 (did she post that on another thread)

to answer your question I’m generally a private person and there are just some things I don’t want to expand on in a public forum - I hope you understand (I’d expand on via private message to the scope mods if they asked but a lot of members here I don’t know so well to share all the details)

I’ll leave you with a couple of questions

why do some obviously very disabled people fail in their sickness welfare claims but some with less severe conditions successful even before appeal? (It’s not just down to the assessor & decision maker imo)

why do ‘bullies’ often go after the ‘easy target’? (The obvious answer is because they are less likely to fight back)


im a very black & white person (2+2=4 and very logical thinking - blame my autistic brain) 
tribunal judges are overturning more than 2/3rd of an original benefit decisions - with those odds everyone that fails their initial assessment should taken a chance on MR and tribunal as they have nothing to lose (obviously not including those who got a lower award than expected as that’s more complex) but many don’t due to the stresses of the whole process and discouragement of their original decision.
tribunals and even mr’s cost the gov a lot of money (hence the increase of the dwp changing their original decision or making a counter offer just before the tribunal date - because of the increase of tribunal judges ruling in the claimant’s favour)
a claimant going to tribunal will now often cost the dwp more then if a ‘correct’ award was given in the first place yet we still read the ‘zero points’ stories on forums on a regular basis 
to me something here isn’t adding up
this could be very simply answered by concluding it’s just down to the dwp not caring about wasting money to make their figures look better (I’m sure that it part of it)
but there’s a part of me that wonders if the dwp has some type of ai system in the background who work out claimants who are less likely to go down the tribunal route (as every person who wrongfully gets an unsuccessful sickness benefit claim but doesn’t take it to tribunal is technically ‘saving’ the dwp potentially thousands)
if every person who had an unsuccessful claim took it to tribunal than the dwp would be losing hundreds of thousands in tribunal fees and extra paperwork and staff hours it would require (and if that 2/3rd claimant success rate was maintained or increased on it would look like the dwp flushing money down the drain by not getting the ‘correct’ decision in the first place)
And to expand further I wonder if one of the reasons for the proposed wca reforms is because more of us have been going down the tribunal route and been successful in doing so and certain ministers want to discourage that, make failed claimants think appealing is a pointless waste of time and a hopeless cause. Whether intended or not these reforms will demoralise thousands (some may even not apply for sickness benefits or the reviews if they think they will fail so why go through it) - the reality is that tribunal judges are independent from the dwp and right now we don’t know how they will react if the reforms go ahead (so appealing decisions via tribunal will become even more ‘nothing to lose’ scenario than they are now imo)


I apologise - I went off on a massive tangent and my brain is overworking in trying to explain and find an answer to why some things are the way they are when in reality probably no answer…………..moving away from the keyboard!

deb74

Hi @poppy123456 I am self employed and was getting disability tax credits. I work an average of 20 hours  a week but this depends on how busy I am! I make jewellery and sell at a local market twice a week but running up to christmas I do other events  I am also in the proccess of getting my business online. To answer your question about children I dont have children and live on my own

deb74

Hi @chiarieds. I am going to phone about my pip today. I have been waiting for a letter to say if my mandatory reconsideration has been successful or not. If it isn't I am ready to go to tribunal. I have got the
citizens advice ready to help me fight this if neccessary!

deb74

Sorry @chiarieds. I forgot to say thanks for the link! I will check it out.

deb74

Hi @apple85. I am going to fight this if they think  I am a pushover they are very much mistaken I am a natural red head and a dragon in the chinese calendar and don't give up easily! I spoke to someone from the council  yesterday and explained my situation they will be looking into it as soon as they can. I have just re-read my post from yesterday and it sounds quite negative but i have got my mojo back today! I will be  phoning the dwp today to see what the hell is going on.

poppy123456

apple85 said:

why do some obviously very disabled people fail in their sickness welfare claims but some with less severe conditions successful even before appeal? (It’s not just down to the assessor & decision maker imo)

How do you know who has more severe conditions than someone else? A diagnosis isn't an indication that someone is more affected than another person, even if they all have the same conditions. You can have 5 people all with the same conditions but 2 maybe awarded the correct award, one maybe refused and 2 maybe awarded but it's not the correct award. Some may have the correct award but a shorter award and it should have been a longer award, if their conditions are not expected to change in the future.

The most likely reason for a refusal is poorly completed claim forms. Or not enough of information to give the correct award.

There are also some people that just don't qualify and regardless of how many times they apply they will continue to be refused, even at Tribunal stage. You can have a disability but not qualify for PIP because if you don't meet the descriptors, you won't score the points needed for an award.

poppy123456

deb74 said:

Hi @poppy123456 I am self employed and was getting disability tax credits. I work an average of 20 hours  a week but this depends on how busy I am! I make jewellery and sell at a local market twice a week but running up to christmas I do other events  I am also in the proccess of getting my business online. To answer your question about children I dont have children and live on my own

That will be why your Tax Credits stopped because your PIP ended, you weren't working enough of hours to continue with your claim, as you have no dependent children.

I don't understand why your housing benefits stopped because of that, unless your earnings meant there was no longer any entitlement because there was no PIP award in place.

Have you used a benefits calculator to check entitlement to Universal Credit? This can include help with your rent. However, if your earnings are more than 16 x NMW per week then you will not be able to be referred for the work capability assessment. If your MR or Tribunal decision awards you PIP again then you will be able to report your health condition, supported by a fit note and be referred for the WCA.

Benefits calculator here. https://www.entitledto.co.uk/benefits-calculator