Would you accept having your bank account checked?

Wibbles

I think that the government should make it's own members follow the law /do the decent thing and pay tax, first before trying to dictate the rules to the rest of the nation !

I mean, how many times have we heard of MP's holding massive undisclosed savings in bank accounts in tax free locations such as Panama ?

WhatThe

Also under consideration is giving DWP the powers of arrest and obtaining a warrant to search a home and seize evidence such as computers.

2oldcodgers

poppy123456 said:

2oldcodgers said:

Secondly banks already notify the DWP & HMRC of the interest credited to bank accounts.

I don’t think informing DWP is correct. They do inform HMRC. 

Since the link was established with both the DWP and HMRC computer systems what goes to one goes to the other.

poppy123456

2oldcodgers said:

poppy123456 said:

2oldcodgers said:

Secondly banks already notify the DWP & HMRC of the interest credited to bank accounts.

I don’t think informing DWP is correct. They do inform HMRC. 

Since the link was established with both the DWP and HMRC computer systems what goes to one goes to the other.

Even so, DWP are not specifically informed! Regardless, interest on savings is classed as capital, not income.

Wibbles

WhatThe said:

Also under consideration is giving DWP the powers of arrest and obtaining a warrant to search a home and seize evidence such as computers.

I bet that's going to cause havoc 

2oldcodgers

Bettahm said:

I just think maybe it's only a matter of time before they check to see just what you're spending your money on every month.
For example, when I was with cmht their social worker came here with a whole list of questions. Question #1 check what benefits I'm receiving. 
Question #2 what are you spending all this money on
I dont remember what I said, I was horrified. 

Maybe nothing to do with the dwp but then again....?

Ok it may well be a privacy matter to some, but as the money (welfare payments) comes out of the public purse do you not think that they should be able to see what you are spending it on? I hear time and time again that people should be able to spend it on anything they want.
Should a holiday abroad every year be an acceptable use of say PIP or even the Cost of Living payments?

2oldcodgers

Adeline said:

Do they not already make us jump through enough hoops?

It is taxpayers money so of course they want to check if you are entitled to it

poppy123456

2oldcodgers said:

Bettahm said:

I just think maybe it's only a matter of time before they check to see just what you're spending your money on every month.
For example, when I was with cmht their social worker came here with a whole list of questions. Question #1 check what benefits I'm receiving. 
Question #2 what are you spending all this money on
I dont remember what I said, I was horrified. 

Maybe nothing to do with the dwp but then again....?

Should a holiday abroad every year be an acceptable use of say PIP or even the Cost of Living payments?

Yes!! and why shouldn't it be? I booked my next years holiday abroad a couple of weeks and why shouldn't i? It's my money to do exactly what i want with and i don't need anyone's permission to do that!

My latest cost of living payment went on christmas presents, oh but wait, now you're going to tell me that i shouldn't have done that...

Jimm_Alumni

I'm not sure why people on benefits should be made to feel ashamed or even barred from going on holiday.

Going on holiday is a leisure activity. Leisure is a part of living and can be something different to each person. With no leisure you aren't living, and you eventually get into a very poor mental state.

Thinking in purely economic terms, not including quality of life. If the aim is to get people off benefits to save the government money, why are you enacting something which will drive them into a worse state and keep them on the benefits?

Going back to PIP. PIP is intended to make up for the extra costs of being disabled, which can often mean going on holiday has increased costs. Even if you could afford a holiday on whatever income you do have, the disability could add extra costs that prevent you going. PIP is designed to help you with those extra costs.

OverlyAnxious

2oldcodgers said:

Adeline said:

Do they not already make us jump through enough hoops?

It is taxpayers money so of course they want to check if you are entitled to it

In fairness, tax comes from multiple sources.  I'd be interested to know roughly how much ESA/UC goes back into the tax system as VAT for example.  Income tax from low/middle earners probably doesn't contribute as much as they think.  The majority comes from the top earners, who generally don't care what happens to the 'pocket change' when they've got more than enough anyway.

This will always be a difficult subject though.  I was brought up with the idea that one must work hard to earn money to pay for a 'better' life.  But what about those that could never work?  Should they just be grateful that they get a pittance to scrape by on?  Or should they also be able to enjoy life occasionally? 

(Rhetorical question - it's one I often ponder myself)

Jimm_Alumni

Also, my previous post is something separate from the actual topic. Which is why would you trust the government with the information of what you are spending money on? Do you trust every single future government with this information? Do you trust the third-parties governments have often signed deals with (such as Palantir)?

I'd be surprised if you said yes to all of this.

Why would you let the government, and all future governments, freely check your private bank account, but not someone else? What's the real difference?

It's not like the government has accidentally lost, or had stolen, data before too.

2oldcodgers

Wibbles said:

I think that the government should make it's own members follow the law /do the decent thing and pay tax, first before trying to dictate the rules to the rest of the nation !

I mean, how many times have we heard of MP's holding massive undisclosed savings in bank accounts in tax free locations such as Panama ?

First of all I doubt that any MP claims any form of means tested benefits or indeed any welfare benefits at all.
Most MP's do actually follow the rules relating to taxation. There is absolutely nothing wrong in that following the rules they are still able to avoid paying tax - we all have the same options.
As for offshore trading and banking there are regulations but provided you follow them there is nothing wrong in having millions in bank accounts in other countries. Likewise non dom status is also legal.

2oldcodgers

WhatThe said:

Also under consideration is giving DWP the powers of arrest and obtaining a warrant to search a home and seize evidence such as computers.

Nothing new. They currently work hand in hand with the police in potential fraud cases. HMRC as well as the Insolvency Service already have the power of arrest as well as an open warrant to force entry into a property and seize what they want. DWP is one of those departments that don't have those powers so I see nothing wrong in bringing them up to what other departments can do already.

Jimm_Alumni

Crazy idea here, I know. But I think nobody should have their bank account checked to see what they're spending money on without reasonable cause of a crime and a court order. People on benefits, MPs, pensioners, anyone.

Edit: There are better ways to discover fraud without invading every single persons' privacy. As I believe I said earlier, there are already existing ways to get this information for crimes being committed.

Jimm_Alumni

Also, about things like tax havens and non dom status being legal.

Something being legal and something being "okay" morally or ethically are two different questions. Just for clarification since it was mentioned above. Someone can find it not okay, and it being legal doesn't make their opinion wrong.

Ralph

Jimm_Scope said:

Also, about things like tax havens and non dom status being legal.

Something being legal and something being "okay" morally or ethically are two different questions. Just for clarification since it was mentioned above. Someone can find it not okay, and it being legal doesn't make their opinion wrong.

Yep and who makes the laws on this.

Wibbles

poppy123456 said:

2oldcodgers said:

poppy123456 said:

2oldcodgers said:

Secondly banks already notify the DWP & HMRC of the interest credited to bank accounts.

I don’t think informing DWP is correct. They do inform HMRC. 

Since the link was established with both the DWP and HMRC computer systems what goes to one goes to the other.

Even so, DWP are not specifically informed! Regardless, interest on savings is classed as capital, not income.

As is income from ISA's and any form of investment.

judie

2oldcodgers said:

Wibbles said:

I think that the government should make it's own members follow the law /do the decent thing and pay tax, first before trying to dictate the rules to the rest of the nation !

I mean, how many times have we heard of MP's holding massive undisclosed savings in bank accounts in tax free locations such as Panama ?

First of all I doubt that any MP claims any form of means tested benefits or indeed any welfare benefits at all.
Most MP's do actually follow the rules relating to taxation. There is absolutely nothing wrong in that following the rules they are still able to avoid paying tax - we all have the same options.
As for offshore trading and banking there are regulations but provided you follow them there is nothing wrong in having millions in bank accounts in other countries. Likewise non dom status is also legal.

It was tax payers money they fiddled for expenses 

Wibbles

2oldcodgers said:

Wibbles said:

I think that the government should make it's own members follow the law /do the decent thing and pay tax, first before trying to dictate the rules to the rest of the nation !

I mean, how many times have we heard of MP's holding massive undisclosed savings in bank accounts in tax free locations such as Panama ?

First of all I doubt that any MP claims any form of means tested benefits or indeed any welfare benefits at all.
Most MP's do actually follow the rules relating to taxation. There is absolutely nothing wrong in that following the rules they are still able to avoid paying tax - we all have the same options.
As for offshore trading and banking there are regulations but provided you follow them there is nothing wrong in having millions in bank accounts in other countries. Likewise non dom status is also legal.

Don't be too sure 
They're entitled to PIP if they're disabled and I bet they claim it.... 

Albus_Scope

One phrase springs to mind here

"Just because you can, it doesn't mean you should."