Offensive Post — Scope | Disability forum
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Offensive Post

JustPete
JustPete Community Volunteer Adviser, Scope Member Posts: 301 Pioneering
Is it offensive to ask, in an online forum with many strands (Quora), or indeed like this:

'Would you rather be gay or disabled'?  The question was posted with a whole heap of explanation and background musing.

After rewording the question 3 times, explaining it to be a genuine question for DISCUSSION, then being banned for the site.

PLEASE DON'T BAN ME SCOPE!
I am a Scope Community Volunteer Adviser with knowledge of "life"!  Lived experience including employing personal assistants, being gay, sport & leisure inclusion & participation, mental health issues.  

What is the bravest thing you've ever said? asked the boy. 'Help,' said the horse.  'Asking for help isn't giving up,' said the horse. 'It's refusing to give up.”
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Comments

  • 66Mustang
    66Mustang Community member Posts: 13,044 Disability Gamechanger
    Were they asking because both of those characteristics cause you to be disadvantaged due to discrimination and prejudice, and they wanted to know which is less discriminated against?

    If they were however likening the two then yes I would say it is offensive but that's just my view.
  • JustPete
    JustPete Community Volunteer Adviser, Scope Member Posts: 301 Pioneering
    @66Mustang So, it was about the discrimination and prejudice - not the likening of the 2.  The post was crystal clear.
    I am a Scope Community Volunteer Adviser with knowledge of "life"!  Lived experience including employing personal assistants, being gay, sport & leisure inclusion & participation, mental health issues.  

    What is the bravest thing you've ever said? asked the boy. 'Help,' said the horse.  'Asking for help isn't giving up,' said the horse. 'It's refusing to give up.”
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 886 Pioneering

    What is there to discuss?
    Is there a genuine answer to the genuine question?


  • JustPete
    JustPete Community Volunteer Adviser, Scope Member Posts: 301 Pioneering
    I believe it to be a genuine question.
    I am a Scope Community Volunteer Adviser with knowledge of "life"!  Lived experience including employing personal assistants, being gay, sport & leisure inclusion & participation, mental health issues.  

    What is the bravest thing you've ever said? asked the boy. 'Help,' said the horse.  'Asking for help isn't giving up,' said the horse. 'It's refusing to give up.”
  • Jimm_Scope
    Jimm_Scope Posts: 2,318 Scope online community team
    edited November 2023
    While both receive discrimination in society, I feel like it's unhelpful to compare the two. They aren't equal comparatives. They definitely aren't an "either or". The question seems to suggest they are different groups. There are many disabled people who are gay, and therefore vice versa too.

    I don't think it's an offensive question by itself, that depends on the intent behind it. However, I don't think it's a helpful, useful or fun question. As well as that, it's quite likely to cause disagreement because you are asking someone to pick between the two, possibly implying they dislike the other (even if that is not the case), which could upset people who are in that group.

    What are we trying to figure out from this question? 

    And whatever the answer to that is, is there a better way to ask it?
    They/Them, however they are no wrong pronouns with me so whatever you feel most comfortable with
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    Opinions are my own, such as mashed potato being bad.
  • Rosie_Scope
    Rosie_Scope Posts: 1,618 Scope online community team
    I think Jimm makes some good points. Even with extensive context, it could come across as quite inflammatory to some people. 

    Both being gay and being disabled come with positive and negative experiences that aren't always easily comparable, sometimes intertwine, and provoke a lot of emotive responses. 

    As per our house rules, we're always trying to keep things civil, safe and supportive. Other communities and boards will have their own rules and regulations on content. But if they think discussions are heading somewhere too difficult to moderate, or discussions pop up that might bring their brands into disrepute for whatever reason, then they will act on it whether they think the discussion is valid or not. 
    Rosie (she/her)

    Online Community Coordinator @ Scope

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  • Steve_in_The_City
    Steve_in_The_City Scope Member Posts: 511 Pioneering
    Well, I had my post removed by the moderator. There was nothing offensive about my post, it didn't break house rules, it just didn't concur with the views of the moderator. It is as simple as that. I don't know if this post will be removed. I hate censorship especially when it is done by people who don't share your point of view. Perhaps the moderator will print my post and tell me what is offensive about it? I doubt this will happen. 
  • Albus_Scope
    Albus_Scope Posts: 2,883 Scope online community team
    Hi @Steve_in_The_City one of our team sent you a private message regarding this earlier in the day. 
    Albus (he/him)

    Online Community Coordinator @ Scope

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    Opinions expressed are solely my own.
    Neurodivergent.
  • Steve_in_The_City
    Steve_in_The_City Scope Member Posts: 511 Pioneering
    edited November 2023
     @Albus_Scope I do have issues with inappropriate censorship. This is the message I got from "the team":

     "Hi Steve_in_The_City,

    I'm just reaching out to inform you that your post in the discussion "Offensive Posts" was deleted.

    I want to clarify that I very much understand your sentiment and why you posted that. But it did break our house rules and so had to be removed. As you can see, Rosie and I did make posts in an attempt to educate the asker of the question",

    I stand to be corrected, but what I would like you to do, is post my comment (I note you have failed to do this, in a previous post I asked for my input to be published) and say in what way it broke house rules? The reason for this is that I don't think it went along with the belief system of the moderator who removed it. That is bad censorship and totally unnecessary. Why are you not showing my post and saying what is wrong about it? If you do this I will be able to make a proper and reasoned response. I don't think this will happen but I live in hope.
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 11,287 Disability Gamechanger
    Putting my two penneth in, I think that any post that might be found offensive by other members should always be removed.

    I also think that Scope are great at deciding what's right for this forum and what isn't, and that most of the time this forum runs really well.
    2024 The year of the general election...the time for change is coming 💡

  • Steve_in_The_City
    Steve_in_The_City Scope Member Posts: 511 Pioneering
    @woodbine Until you see my post, which I have requested to be shown on this thread, you are not in a position to judge it inappropriate or otherwise, there was nothing offensive about it (I don't do offensive posts), but it didn't concur with the mindset of a moderator. It is that simple. If ever the moderators decide to show my post (highly unlikely) you will be very hard pushed to find anything offensive.
  • Steve_in_The_City
    Steve_in_The_City Scope Member Posts: 511 Pioneering
    I have asked for my post to be published with indicators as to why it is deemed inappropriate. I got the following response:

    Hi Steve_in_The_City,

    I'm just reaching out to inform you that your post in the discussion "Offensive Posts" was deleted.

    I want to clarify that I very much understand your sentiment and why you posted that. But it did break our house rules and so had to be removed. As you can see, Rosie and I did make posts in an attempt to educate the asker of the question.

    I hope you understand, if you have any issues please do message back.

    Best wishes,
    Jimm
    Online community team

    As you can see there is no explanation as to why my post was deemed offensive. I find this unacceptable. So I am going to answer the question in a way that the moderators can't object to:

    The question is completely insulting. Notice the full stop, moderators.




  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 11,287 Disability Gamechanger
    edited November 2023
    @woodbine Until you see my post, which I have requested to be shown on this thread, you are not in a position to judge it inappropriate or otherwise, there was nothing offensive about it (I don't do offensive posts), but it didn't concur with the mindset of a moderator. It is that simple. If ever the moderators decide to show my post (highly unlikely) you will be very hard pushed to find anything offensive.
    I made no judgement on your "unseen " post and therefore I have no idea if it was appropriate or otherwise, and I didn't accuse you of being offensive, I was purely making a passing comment which I believe I am allowed to do. I stand by my comment that Scope do a great job in running this forum, something I'm sure isn't always easily done on the basis that you "cant please all of the people all of the time"
    And here endeth my involvement in this discussion.
    2024 The year of the general election...the time for change is coming 💡

  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community member Posts: 15,864 Disability Gamechanger
    I think it would have been helpful if the Scope team had said in what way your post broke the community's house rules, otherwise how are you to know what they deemed wrong?
    If the gist of your comment was that the question itself was 'insulting,' then I can't see that what you said was wrong. Such a comment would be in no way attacking JustPete, so not an ad hominem argument.
    Not knowing exactly what you said, however, I can only suggest you ask for an explanation, & hope you get clarification, but this is best done privately. 
    I would agree, having read many of your posts, that you certainly don't make offensive posts; that's not you. Equally I don't think that the removal of your comment would be due to any bias, such as the mindset of a moderator.
    One of the reasons I didn't reply on this thread, is that to me all people are equal. To me any perceived 'differences' are what makes us all unique, thank goodness.
  • Steve_in_The_City
    Steve_in_The_City Scope Member Posts: 511 Pioneering
    edited November 2023
    I had a very nice private email and I have decided to let this matter drop. By the way, I think @JustPete raised a very valid point. 
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 10,599 Scope online community team
    Hello @Steve_in_The_City

    I can see you've recently posted to say you have decided to let the matter drop but some strong accusations have been publicly made and I feel it important to reiterate that the team do not delete or remove comments based on personal opinion. The team moderate to our house rules and our principles of ensuring the community remain civil, supportive and safe and your post was removed because it breached these. 
    I have asked for my post to be published with indicators as to why it is deemed inappropriate. I got the following response:
    Unfortunately, the post in question contained profanity or inappropriate language and so we would not be able to re-publish it. However, I will send a copy of it over to you by private message. Perhaps the moderator could have explained the reason, but it was likely felt that the clear profanity in the comment spoke for itself. 
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 886 Pioneering

    I think I should come clean..

    I saw the post and laughed because I've never seen that word on this forum and want to reassure Scope that I'm perfectly fine with no lasting damage caused ;)

     
  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 357 Pioneering

    @WhatThe

    Your post brought a smile to my face, which was much needed after the kind of day I've had.



  • Biblioklept
    Biblioklept Community member Posts: 4,180 Disability Gamechanger
    edited November 2023
    Me too @WhatThe :D:D

    I have no issue with swearing and it's pretty common online so didn't bother me, but it's so rare to see on here that it did elicit a giggle  >:) I'm not surprised it was removed though

    @JustPete is the question yours??
  • Steve_in_The_City
    Steve_in_The_City Scope Member Posts: 511 Pioneering
    Ok Guys: I see that none of you have been incomparably harmed by my post! I have had a message from Scope explaining why they deemed my post unsavory. I think they should do this straight away so that the person who posts the offensive message (me!) knows why. That would prevent me (and others, no doubt) from making the same mistake again. I used the word d***h***d. This is a word that is used in common parlance and in no way should be deemed inappropriate or offense. I still think because I dissed Quaora in my post that the moderators got upset. Who can get upset by the word d***h***d? Anyway, I am going to put it behind me.

Brightness

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