Politicians have warned that pensioners' bank accounts could be 'under surveillance', even if they a

2oldcodgers

Politicians have warned that pensioners' bank accounts could be 'under surveillance', even if they are not suspected of doing anything wrong. Concern has been voiced about new powers proposed by the Government aimed at tackling fraud in the benefit system .

The Data Protection and Digital Information Bill seeks to create a new data rights regime for the UK after Brexit. But MPs raised the alarm about newly introduced proposals, which would allow the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) to view benefit claimants’ bank accounts for 'social security purposes'.

Just picked this up from various newspapers this morning. 

Albus_Scope

This goes back to the other thread talking about any person on benefits having their bank accounts monitored. 

    The DWP can already ask banks for claimants bank account usage if they suspect fraud.  This is just an easier way for them to do that, as they wont have to go through all the red tape of asking the banks first. 

I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's the basics from what I've seen so far.  And this is not happening yet either. 

rebel11

If the 'toe' was in the other boot', If politicians had to show their ban accounts I bet all would be reluctant to do so. What would they reveal? 

Albus_Scope

Would you really want to know though @rebel11?  

honestjon

rebel11 said:

If the 'toe' was in the other boot', If politicians had to show their ban accounts I bet all would be reluctant to do so. What would they reveal? 

I agree and the politicians are receiving tax payers money just the same as benefits claimants so there bank accounts should be checked as well.
An independent body to do the checks would be good 

rebel11

Albus_Scope said:

Would you really want to know though @rebel11?  

I think so, how else would you 'root out' corruption, illicit payments, 'cash for questions', incestuous relationships on the financial front, on the Government - this is the worst Government ever for 'sleaze'.

It's more 'Carry On' then 'Carry On', you could make it up. It's embarrassing, you could write a book. 

2oldcodgers

Albus_Scope said:

This goes back to the other thread talking about any person on benefits having their bank accounts monitored. 

    The DWP can already ask banks for claimants bank account usage if they suspect fraud.  This is just an easier way for them to do that, as they wont have to go through all the red tape of asking the banks first. 

I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's the basics from what I've seen so far.  And this is not happening yet either. 

Do you know how far down the line with getting the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill passed

rebel11

https://www.dataguidance.com/news/uk-data-protection-and-digital-information-bill-passes#:~:text=On November 29, 2023, the,Protection and Digital Information (No.

2oldcodgers

rebel11 said:

https://www.dataguidance.com/news/uk-data-protection-and-digital-information-bill-passes#:~:text=On November 29, 2023, the,Protection and Digital Information (No.

Many thanks for that link.

It could well be signed off whether the Lords agree with it or not by Spring?

newborn

Basic state retirement pension (the developed world's lowest) is not means tested. It merely arrives as a result of having paid in to the national insurance scheme for the required number of years, and then reaching a certain age. Therefore there is no 'benefits - frauduClaiminglent' way to claim it. Therefore no legitimate reason to intrude into private bank accounts .   

Claiming pension credit is a different matter. That is means tested.

2oldcodgers

newborn said:

Basic state retirement pension (the developed world's lowest) is not means tested. It merely arrives as a result of having paid in to the national insurance scheme for the required number of years, and then reaching a certain age. Therefore there is no 'benefits - frauduClaiminglent' way to claim it. Therefore no legitimate reason to intrude into private bank accounts .   

Claiming pension credit is a different matter. That is means tested.

I agree with both points. Pension Credit is in my opinion wide open to abuse.
Say someone receives an inheritance of £50,000. The cheque goes into the bank and at the same time another cheque is drawn on that deposit paying the money to say a trusted adult child.
For all intents and purposes the money in the claimant's bank account will remain the same. The only way this can be picked up by the DWP is either by the claimant being honest and informing them of what they have done or the DWP having the banks reporting on that transfer/movement. Hence regular checks would be vital to pick up these claimants.
I also wonder how many claimants actually notify the Pension Service when making a PC claim of the amount of money that is somewhere in the home/purse/tin/under the bed etc. I actually counted what was in my wallet and in my wife's purse plus what was in the bedside drawers! With the savings account plus all of the cash being disclosed I remembered that from way back (1950) someone bought me a £1 premium bond. When it all was added up I was found to have £19.53 more in savings - over the £10,000 limit.
That cost me a £1 a week deduction from my award and that went on for years until I realised that I had been under the limit of £10,000 for over 3 years! The Pension Service would not go back the 3 years + to hand me the £156 + incorrectly deducted

poppy123456

woodbine said:

In my opinion "cash" in your wallet or purse is not "savings" after all you could save it the day after

That's not exactly correct. The benefits you receive isn't classed as capital until the end of the period it's paid for. After that then it's treated as capital, regardless of where you keep it, whether it's in your bank, home, or in a purse/wallet.

2oldcodgers

poppy123456 said:

woodbine said:

In my opinion "cash" in your wallet or purse is not "savings" after all you could save it the day after

That's not exactly correct. The benefits you receive isn't classed as capital until the end of the period it's paid for. After that then it's treated as capital, regardless of where you keep it, whether it's in your bank, home, or in a purse/wallet.

The Pension Credit claim form at the time specifically asked you to disclose the amount of money in your purse/wallet as well as what is held elsewhere within the home. No question as to whether it was income or capital. Obviously the Pension Service since September 2023 is now only asking if the capital is over £10,000. 

poppy123456

woodbine said:

poppy123456 said:

woodbine said:

In my opinion "cash" in your wallet or purse is not "savings" after all you could save it the day after

That's not exactly correct. The benefits you receive isn't classed as capital until the end of the period it's paid for. After that then it's treated as capital, regardless of where you keep it, whether it's in your bank, home, or in a purse/wallet.

sorry my reply was badly worded and I meant to say "spend" not "save"

No problem. To be honest you could say the same thing regardless of where your money is. I still disagree and all your money counts as capital at the end of the period it's paid for.

2oldcodgers

poppy123456 said:

woodbine said:

poppy123456 said:

woodbine said:

In my opinion "cash" in your wallet or purse is not "savings" after all you could save it the day after

That's not exactly correct. The benefits you receive isn't classed as capital until the end of the period it's paid for. After that then it's treated as capital, regardless of where you keep it, whether it's in your bank, home, or in a purse/wallet.

sorry my reply was badly worded and I meant to say "spend" not "save"

No problem. To be honest you could say the same thing regardless of where your money is. I still disagree and all your money counts as capital at the end of the period it's paid for.

I agree with you, but the old PC application form (of which I still retain a copy) makes no mention as to whether it is capital or income. It just asks for a figure of what is being kept on your person and in the home. The Pension Credit people treated all of it as capital - whether that is right or wrong.
Only now the new form only asks if your capital is above £10,000 and if so to list the excess on a separate form (what it is, where it came from etc). Obviously say, the £100 in my pocket was my benefit payment for last week or was being saved from months ago to go towards Christmas presents.
Maybe somebody complained (something that I should have done at the time) that their current income was being treated as capital.