Hi, my name is Hummna91! Recently lost my PIP tribunal

Hummna91

Hello everyone. Just looking for some help and guidance as just recently been let down by DWP and the courts. I have Diabetes, Fibromyalgia, depression, anxiety, panic attacks. Recently had 3 operations on my back. I can not cook any meals at all but on all three occasions they agreed on only 2 points saying I can cook a meal when prompted. I provided so much evidence from doctors and my mum (carer) but was still refused even the standard allowance but they’re deliberately not giving me the correct points. Where can I possibly go from here…

poppy123456

I'm sorry to hear this. May i ask if you either had a face to face hearing or a telephone/video hearing? Or was it paper based?

Your next step is to request the Statement of Reasons and Record of Proceedings, within 1 month of the date of the decision. Which you need to request from HMCTS.

Once you receive those you then need to get expert advice from an agency near you for them to take a look at both of those to see if they can find an error in law. If they can't then you won't be able to take this any further. You will need something like Welfare Rights or a Law Centre. This link will help you find what's local to you. https://advicelocal.uk/welfare-benefits

Albus_Alumni

Hi there @Hummna91 and welcome to the community.

I can see you're getting some great advice already, but I just wanted to stop by and wish you a warm welcome and to say sorry the tribunal didn't rule in your favour. 

Hummna91

Thank you Poppy. I have tried the link but it’s not working saying there’s too much traffic on the page. 

It was over the phone hearing. I was one point away from getting it. All the evidence supported I do not cook at all. Yet they still stuck to 2 points saying I can cook when prompted. It’s absolutely despicable 

thank you Albus. I’m just feeling absolutely hopeless right now… there’s just no help out there anymore. It’s disheartening 

Rosie_Scope

Big welcome from me too @Hummna91, really sorry to read about your PIP result, it's so horrible to have to fight to be heard. 

Looks like you're already getting some good advice from Poppy, but just so you know, I'm going to pop your post over to our PIP section where more members can find it and offer their experiences. I hope things start getting better for you soon. 

poppy123456

Whether more than 2 points can be scored for preparing a meal will depend on the reasons why you can't complete that activity. Just because you don't cook, it doesn't mean you'll score more points for that. You can't just appeal the decision because you think it's wrong.

I just tried that link and it works perfectly for me.

Albus_Alumni

The site may just have had a very busy few minutes, it's worth trying the link again. 

Hummna91

The page that I need to go to after entering my postcode does not let me open it because of too much traffic

all the medical evidence I presented shows that I have anxiety, depression which cause low moods, I have severe vit d deficiency that causes severe pain. I have fibromyalgia so suffer from great pain. I suffer from extreme dizziness vertigo this is also due to side affects of all the medication I am on, I have arthritis in my hands. My hands go numb I can’t hold things I suffer from shakes. It’s physically not safe for me to be in the kitchen cooking what more reasons do I need? I just don’t understand how they have clearly refuted it all 

Hummna91

I understand it’s a very complicated process I don’t think I will be appealing it any further than this. I’ve just lost faith in the government and justice system that is all 

Albus_Alumni

If it doesn't work, try again later on, it just means the site has lots of people trying to use it. It'll work in a bit, don't worry.

As for the medical evidence, I found personally when I applied (and had to go to tribunal) it was more about how I answered the questions for the descriptors. They were looking at that rather than any medical evidence I gave. It really shouldn't be like that, but they're very strict with how they assess things.
   I'm really hoping you can find someone on the link Poppy has posted that will be able to help you and get you the correct result. We're all here for support too.  

poppy123456

PIP isn't awarded based on any diagnosis and you haven't given enough of information here for anyone to be able to tell you whether it's possible to score more than 2 points for preparing a meal. If what you said above is what you told them then that's not enough of information.

Medical evidence is only helpful if it states exactly how your conditions affect you and very often it doesn't.

It really does help to have some understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean because otherwise a claim becomes more difficult, especially if you're chasing points that you may not be able to score. Have a read of this and it may help.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

Carrying items around the kitchen is not considered in this activity either.

Hummna91

I requested a letter from my GP for this exact purpose to explain my daily living difficulties because of my illnesses they refused stating that if DWP require medical records/information then they ask for it themselves 

I have never seen this guide before. I will definitely use it as a guide and start a new claim 

thank you so much 

Hummna91

Thank you Albus. I think I will restart and submit a new claim with the new information I’ve received on here 

poppy123456

Hummna91 said:

I requested a letter from my GP for this exact purpose to explain my daily living difficulties because of my illnesses they refused stating that if DWP require medical records/information then they ask for it themselves 

I'm afraid letters from a GP carry very little weight this is because they do not live with you to see how you manage the PIP descriptors and they don't see you dress/undress, bathe, prepare food, manage toilet needs, budget etc etc. The only way they will know is because you've told them and then this becomes "hearsay."

Please do not reapply before doing some research to try to get some knowledge of the descriptors and what they mean. Reapplying using the same evidence you previously used is likely going to see another refusal.

Including a couple of real world examples of exactly what happened the last time you attempted each descriptor will also help. Adding detailed information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were.

Going back to the preparing food activity, you said you "can't" cook, which means you must be thinking you should score 8 points for this activity alone, you haven't given enough of information for anyone to be able to advise on that but 8 points is asking a lot for 1 descriptor. Just because you say you can't do something, it doesn't mean you'll score maximum points.

Hummna91

yes i absolutely understand what you mean. I honestly wish I had met you earlier so you could have explained all this to me then. I am doing a lot more research now 

what else do you suggest I can submit as evidence? I gave a letter from my mum last time. Is there anything else I can  

poppy123456

I'm afraid i can't tell you what evidence you should send because i don't know anything about how your conditions affect you. You should concentrate on those real world examples i mentioned in my earlier comment. You are the only person that knows exactly how your conditions affect you, not anyone else.

Hummna91

Based on your help so far and what I’ve realised is about preparing food what I should have explained is that I have severe depression and sometimes can last days on end. I lack motivation to get out of bed on those days and unable to bring myself to do anything at all not just cook. 

Also I can not stand long enough without experiencing immense pain and dizziness to ensure food is cooked through safe enough to eat 

I suffer from shakes and can not handle knives and other kitchen appliances safely. I can not hold on to hot pots safely this includes taking hot food out of the microwave or air fryer without risk of dropping either hot oil hot food hot plates or hot appliances or hot kettle water on myself and causing injury (I also am unable to fill a hot water bottle because of this exact reason)

i also suffer from numbness in my fingers so if I lose grip of something sharp or something hot I could injure myself

i literally only just said I have pain and dizziness so I can’t cook that is all. And One of the tribunal judges suggested I sit on a stool in the kitchen and cook so would this answer that I’ve given now be more sufficient? 

please can you let me know if I am getting closer to being on the right track this time round… would really really appreciate that 

poppy123456

Have you had a read of the link i posted? If you haven't please have a read because some of what you've said here is not considered in the descriptors for preparing a meal.

Hummna91 said:

I can not hold on to hot pots safely this includes taking hot food out of the microwave or air fryer without risk of dropping either hot oil hot food hot plates or hot appliances or hot kettle water on myself and causing injury (I also am unable to fill a hot water bottle because of this exact reason)

A hot water bottle has nothing to do with preparing a meal either. Carrying items around the kitchen or carrying food to where it will be eaten is not considered in this descriptor.

I'm still not convinced that it will be possible to score the full 8 points here. 4 points is likely the most you could score here for needing assistance or supervision.

Using a perching stool would be an aid, which is 2 points.

Hummna91

I was only one point away from getting the standard so 4 points instead of 2 would be better. I know hot water bottle isn’t considered food I was just giving an example these are what applies to me so maybe I should just be awarded 4 points instead of 2 or 8

poppy123456

Your example of the hot water bottle wasn't relevant. You need to keep the information you give relevant to the PIP descriptors.

I would advise you to take some time to have a good read of the link i posted above and please do not apply again just yet. If you don't understand it once you've read it, have another read, there's no rush. If you don't then you risk being refused again because having some understanding of the descriptors will always help.

You can also start to write down some notes by using the questions in the form here. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1179475/pip2-form-and-information-booklet.pdf Then when you do eventually reapply you will have all the information you need and you won't be so stressed.

Hummna91

I am saving all these links. I will take my time and re apply once I’ve had a through read through everything and also after speaking to a local welfare advisor once I get a meeting. Thank you so much I really do appreciate it