PIP for mental health refused because I'm a parent?

Shell2014

Hi everyone just after a little advice around if I should even attempt Mandatory Reconsideration for PIP? I have multiple mental health issues, but mostly applied for PTSD and undiagnosed eating problem (GP and counsellor unsure of anorexia or self harm by restricting/starving food). My assessors report was very biased as in she used a small part of what I said and missed important details out to evidence no help needed. Example I have a child, therefore I have the motivation and ability etc. Totally ignored all help I'm receiving, the fact that my parents have had to take my child for days at a time when I've been very poorly. Also used my recent return to work to show motivation and cognitive ability for all activities. She of course missed out my detailed explanation of how I had tried to return to the workplace I've been employed at for 15 years after being told I was going to be medically discharged. I tried to go back, I had reasonable adjustments in place and was only to work 2 hours a day. At time of assessment I'd officially been back 3 weeks. 1st week I explained 1 day my sister had to take me as I was too anxious to drive, another day I drove halfway (10 minute total journey) and had to pull over due to a massive panic attack and my brother had to come rescue me. Another day the 1st week after 10 mins of being there my manager literally took 1 look at me and drove me home immediately. The 2nd week I never made it into work at all. Then the 3rd week I was unable to go in 2 days out of 5. My assessment took place at the end of the 3rd week so I explained ALL of this and said I was unable to cope and my PTSD was getting worse and cried because I would have to hand in my notice to work. None of this was considered of course, only that I had returned to work. Think the biggest shock of a decision made was on the taking nutrition activity. Although she noted details of my eating problems, she wrote down that I only eat a snack every few days and also asked my current weight and height which showed my bmi was underweight, the assessor considered I needed prompting to eat then rejected it as caring for my child showed motivation therefore I should be able to eat. I mean I know I should be able to, I've never claimed a physical cause why not but a so called mental health nurse has decided even though I don't I should have no problem. I don't even know how to argue these ridiculous reasons for refusing. I'm just mindblown at how nonsensical they are. Has anyone else fought a decision like this and won? I also have the assessment recording to prove what I said. The cheeky b@@%h even had the nerve to call me darling whilst trying to calm me down from an anxiety attack during assessment then went on to score me 0 for everything after. Just feel so betrayed that she made herself out to be so compassionate and understanding when she clearly didn't believe a word I'd said. Sorry for the rant but I hadn't bothered even trying before as I'd heard stories like this and didn't want to put myself through it but my counsellor kept telling me to go for it as i had a strong case and evidence. I found the whole experience very traumatic and the end result of reading the report and decision totally dismissing my struggles has made my MH worse. Its made me feel like a liar and a fraud. It triggered my PTSD where my mother dragged me to my GP for more medication to calm me down. My family keep telling me not to take it personal but I can't help it. If they'd acknowledged my struggles but found them not to be so severe as to award points I'd have been fine. Its the fact that my struggles have been dismissed like this thats really hurt. Will doing MR just come back with the same result and more stress? 

chiarieds

I'm so sorry this has happened & the unfortunate 'cut & paste' responses really don't help as it feels like your disabilities have not been acknowledged. The assessor however is not there to just write down what you say, but form an opinion, & yes, many unfortunately get this wrong. Don't let it get to you

I feel it is worth doing a Mandatory Reconsideration (MR) even tho the success rate of these isn't great. If another decision maker doesn't change things, then the current success rate with then appealing to a tribunal is currently 68% which is so much better!

Remember PIP is not about any diagnosis, but rather how your disability affects certain activities of daily living &/mobility the majority of the time. Have a look again at the activities/descriptors that are looked at: https://www.mentalhealthandmoneyadvice.org/en/welfare-benefits/pip-mental-health-guide/help-with-your-pip-claim/how-to-fill-in-the-pip-form/   This is about completing a PIP form, but is still relevant with your MR.

Please put your MR in writing, as, if needed, you then have this for a tribunal to consider.

With your MR you should say where you think you should have got points, & why giving a couple of recent, detailed examples as to the difficulty you face for each applicable descriptor, i.e. when did it happen, where, what happened, did anyone see this, & were there any consequences to attempting/doing an activity?

Say if you can't do an activity 'reliably,' i.e. safely, to an acceptable standard, repeat as often as one would reasonably expect, or if it takes you much longer than someone without a disability. See this mentioned at the end of the link above.

Put your name & National Insurance number on each page. Keep a copy, & get a free Certificate of Posting from your Post Office when sending it off.

This is also worth looking through, where you'll also see the concept of reliability that's mentioned above.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/918328/pip-assessment-guide-part-1-assessment-process.pdf

Do come back with any questions, & hope you have a lovely Christmas.

Carlosos

Keep going to the very end. I was as shocked as you at how heartless and obtuse the dwp are. It’s totally shocking and unfair to treat people how you have been treated. I had a similar response to my claim and even worse response to my MR. I have now submitted my tribunal request and hopefully talk things through with level headed people. Don’t let it bother you too much and don’t give up, this just seems par for the course. 

2oldcodgers

I have just posted a reply on a similar situation regarding driving and yes assessors do mark down the scores if you have child caring responsibilities. It is for you to prove otherwise. A favourite one is if you have a pet or dog. Walking a dog indicates that you do have none or little difficulty walking or taking responsibility to ensure that the pet is fed properly and receives vet treatment when required.

Shell2014

Firstly thanks to all the advice and support given. Especially since its xmas and you've still found the time and kindness to respond. Honestly I researched this massively, went on every official gov site reading all the guidelines, restrictions, descriptors everything. Even checked laws and regulations around how to assess descriptors and even how at tribunal laws and regulations on why a decision was found wrong and overturned. I took advice from various sources, including paying a "professional" to help with filling in the form. I read every post regarding assessor tricks and reasons for refusing. So I knew in advance that driving, pets, children and work seems to automatically dismiss claims for both physical and mental problems. Really thought I'd covered these areas with evidence well. As expected I was asked about driving and explained yes I can drive but hadn't done for a period of 8 months because of overwhelming anxiety and panic attacks. Had only recently begun driving again only when mentally able to and not very far. Surprisingly she never used this against me! I kinda giggled slightly when asked about pets cos I found it funny that they do actually follow this script. Anyway I have no pets. Like I said I knew the child and work would be a big factor used against me but really thought I'd evidenced enough to prove all the help and support I receive from family to help care for my child, during assessment i described my difficulties and cried about how guilty i felt that i felt i wasn't capable of being the best parent i should be for my child and told her how ashamed i was that my family had to regularly take my child to stay with them when my MH was so bad I felt unable to care for him adequately. Also the fact he is almost 10 yrs old so not exactly needing huge amounts of care and 24/7 attention required like a toddler or a baby. For work the fact I trued to detail everything about my attempt and failure to return to work because of subsequent worsening of my MH and that I was going to have to give up work. ALL IGNORED! Wouldn't care but my assessment should have been 4 weeks before but got cancelled after they ran out of time to start mine. If they'd done it on original date I wouldn't have even returned to work at that point so they'd have had to really focus on using my child as an excuse to dismiss me. Just really angry DWP are allowing these areas to be used against a claimant! Driving- if found to have high mobility you can get a mobility car! Work??!! Having a job doesn't affect PIP unless it contradicts your claim, the fact that I tried and failed to return despite my workplace putting a lot of reasonable adjustments in place should never have been refused to "I HAD RETURNED TO WORK THEREFORE" pretty much it means I'm cured! I've listened to the recording at least 3 times now to see where I could have gone wrong or not using the descriptors sufficiently. I've noticed that every time I tried to explain things in further detail she would talk over and interupt me, would move onto another question whilst I was still talking, she told me a few times that I was talking too much! And going into more detail than needed. Kept telling me what I'd said was all she needed and didn't need to know anything further. I did apologise for my nerves and anxiety making me maybe talking too much but she promised me it was enough and covered every answer fully and would let me know if she felt I needed to explain in more detail. She's obviously left out what I believe to be important details but I also think she kept trying to prevent me from explaining my point further. She really only wanted yes or no answers a lot of the time without further explanation. I now feel like it was all a set up. This is where I'm struggling to figure out how to successfully challenge the decision because I used every piece of evidence I could and really focused on proving these particular areas as I knew they would be used against me. For MR I know my views that the assessment was flawed and won't be considered by the DM. I've thought about putting a complaint in to IAS about the assessor but after researching it unless I can find actual lies which they would probably view as omissions as it appears that the HP has every right to leave details out that they believe has no bearing and it comes down to their medical opinion on what to include. It's a difficult thing to prove I believe her opinion was biased and not based on assessing my mental needs. She did confirm in my report that I was tense, anxious, withdrawn had poor rapport and had some difficulty coping at interview (which i think was an understatement as she had to stop the assessment to calm and console me 2 times while having an anxiety attack). The only thing I could possibly accuse her of lying about is when she said noted in my mental state exam that I had adequate general memory and was able to answer every question in full without any input, when in fact there were several times I had a lot of difficulty remembering specific things like name of medication, dates of appointments or medication changes. I had no idea and couldn't remember these things. Told her this and expressed my efforts in trying to locate the the info she wanted by looking through various paperwork but still couldn't find it. I could eventually confirm the dose of medication I'm currently on by telling her I was going into the kitchen to get it and see. But as far as her wanting to know the date of medication increase and previous date of medication change and what the medication was previously I didn't have a clue! This went on for a good 10 minutes until I got so stressed and asked her if she had this info on my form or within the evidence I'd provided as I was sure I'd reported it all. She made a big huff about looking but actually within 3 seconds she had all the info in front of her! She told me the name of my previous meds and I said yeah that sounds familiar. I suppose her finally telling me and my agreement that it sounded right was enough to prove my good memory 😂She told me there'd been some change in my meds in Oct and asked me what that was. I didn't know. I couldn't remember dates of starting or changing meds at all. She kept pushing that a change had been made in Oct and what was it? I honestly didn't know I told her it could have been when my meds were changed or when the dose was increased but honestly didn't know. But still apparently no problem with memory. Strange that! Not sure if they'd find this sufficient to warrant a complaint 😦

TheManFromLondon

@Shell2014

First, I am really sorry you are going through that. Anyone applying for PIP can relate how emotionally hurt you must be.

I just want to make a suggestion, after reading your two big posts here. You need to shift your attention from the assessor and what the did, said, wrote or didn't, and whether they believed you or not, and focus on yourself and prepare putting it all down for an MR and if need be for a Tribunal.

It is obvious your condition affects you to great extent, literally you have put that out here with your posts, but try making it more focused speaking about you, rather trying to confront the unfortunate person that interviewed you.

I know its easier said than done, but you will find the strength to challenge this decision, evidence of that is you are here, in a healthy anger, with a determination to fix whats wrong, so you are on your way.

Make it about you, explain all for MR (and if need be for tribunal) as if you are sending a fresh application. Forget that assessment report and experience, just use the issues you faced to better explain yourself.

A lot of people have adjusted themselves while applying, trying to explain their situation better and successfully got an award.

I wish you a Happy New Year with an award that will make you smile, soon.

You got this!

Shell2014

Thanks for the advice, I think you're probably right I've fixated far too much on the assessor and took it far too personal and made myself ill. I'll definitely do MR I'm just struggling to put it down factually in words using the PIP narrative instead of my emotions. Can anyone recommend where to get help? CAB are too full and having previously used my local welfare rights for something else I'm not gonna bother. I appreciate they're a free service but the guy who helped me before was useless unfortunately. Also once I control my emotions do you think a complaint against the assessor is justified for not following guidelines properly or am I overreacting because I'm a little overemotional? I'll admit I do take things to heart too much. But even after having calmed down a bit part of me still thinks the assessor was unprofessional and biased in her opinions. Again this could just be me taking offence for no reason. 

poppy123456

You can put a complaint it to the health assessment providers. Details how to do this will be on their website. To be honest, the assessor probably won't even remember you.

When filling out the forms or writing the MR, there's no right or wrong words to use. Just make sure you keep it relevant to the PIP descriptors. They don't need to know your life story and less is often more.

TheManFromLondon

@Shell2014

I did what you are doing right now. Said I am too fixated with the assessor, I'll move on ,then I wanted to work it off with a complaint etc.

You really have to let go. The assessor will always say "that was my opinion" and it will result to nothing else than you wasting time, and making yourself ill.

If you can find holes that matter, like you reported side effects on the form or the telephone and they didnt put it in the report, you can make the report useless for a tribunal (when and if you get that far, maybe it all gets better with an MR, although there is a very low rate of success at that stage). If something like that has happened (side effects not reported when you did mention it) even MR will be more inclined to look at the claim more positively because a tribunal will freak out over that and they know that.

Other reasons can be many, but you know them best. 

On preparing the MR or tribunal if needed, you should get someone who knows you. Like me, you seem too nervous, and what has happened with the report here doesn't help either. I read you posts and the information you need is there, and plenty more is to be added i'm sure, you just need a second head next to you to put all in the right order, in a "chat, write down" kind of approach and then proof it a few times with them.

Please, try to be unshakeable. Bad things happen all the time, weird people cross our path all the time, a jerk at the grocery store parking, a clerk at the post office, an assessor for PIP. As with everything else, this benefit can be a real tester.

Get someone you feel good around, and take it a step at a time. Tell them what descriptors you feel apply to you, give a couple of real world examples, what happened and how it affected you afterwards. Keep it simple, they dont want you life's story.

Try to relax. I am a parent too, I have Autism (along a few other mental health struggles), and got an offer for an award before the tribunal while waiting for it.

Smile. For your kids and yourself. They are watching and can sense us. If they feel bad, we feel bad. Bad energy in the family is a down spiral descent, that always starts from us, the parents. 

Be unshakeable.

Be well.

Go get whats yours.

Go get that award.