Bank account checking

Tonawanda17

Hi. Does anyone know when the bank account checking will start. I thought it was supposed to be 2025 but I’ve seen a few paper articles today saying 2024?

Albus_Scope

Hi @Tonawanda17 as we've said to you before, please try not to worry, there is nothing in place still.

  I've seen a few articles talking about 2024 changes from small papers, but nothing from sources such as the DWP, BBC, Sky etc. So I'd be taking those articles with a big pinch of salt. 

Tonawanda17

thanks very much. I did think it would be a bit soon. I also think they would need to test it quite a bit before introducing it

Albus_Scope

It'll need to get through the House of Lords before anything can start to happen too. 

Jimm_Alumni

I am sure I read an article the other day saying the system won't even be in place until 2030 at the earliest.

I'll try to find it again. Regardless, it could all change once the government changes too.

Tonawanda17

Hi. Sorry to be a pain but are we sure they aren’t doing this already. Just saw a post on another site saying someone had 6000 paid into their bank from a pension and the bank told them they had to inform the dwp straight away. Then their benefits were stopped? 

Does this sound right?

poppy123456

Nothing gas started yet, other than what they've always done for many many years. Where ever you've heard that story from there's a lot more to it than that. A lump sum of £6,000 wouldn't end any benefits unless they had more than £10,000 in capital before they had that lump sum.

A bank wouldn't tell anyone they need to inform DWP of any lump sum.

OverlyAnxious

I disagree with that.  Misunderstandings happen all the time.  I've often found myself caught up in something that was completely innocent because someone else perceived it differently.  And as I've always been a poor communicator, can rarely explain the reality.  This scenario is played out in films and TV all the time, it's not a rare occurrence in real life.

The people caught up in the Post Office scandal were doing nothing wrong.  That didn't stop them being punished for it.


My personal opinion on this is that the most simple algorithm the DWP could use is one that simply checks every means tested claimants bank account and flags any that are over £6k.  (Modern computer algorithms could check thousands of accounts each day doing that.)  That would likely then be passed on to a human to verify.  The human should remove the latest payments, any COL payments, and any backpay within the 12 month disregard, and then check if the account is still over £6k or not.  Would you trust them to do that?  Will those particular staff even have access to amounts of backpay and number of COLs for each claimant?  Chances are that is then escalated to a telephone call to the claimant to justify their capital levels.  That might be manageable for people with good social and communication skills.  It wouldn't be manageable for myself or others on here, let alone in the wider world.  So what would the next escalation be after a missed phone call?  Being called into the Job Centre presumably...  Again, completely impossible for myself and at least some others on here.  So then what?  Hopefully just a reduction in income, but potentially a total stop while they investigate any fraudulent activity further.  Don't forget excess capital with means tested benefits is fraud, as you're being paid more than you should be.

For those who the system works, great, maybe they do have nothing to worry about.  For those of us that just about scrape through it, unable to use phones or get to the job centre, we know we're only one misunderstanding away from losing all income and then having no way to get it reinstated.  

Meg24

If it was as simple as checking balance amounts it would be fine but that's not what they're saying. They're saying that they will be designing the AI to look for 'signs of fraud' so will be looking at regular money transfers, purchases abroad etc. I have two accounts that I often transfer between to help me manage my spending because I have impulsivity issues, I also receive sporadic gifts from my parents. None of this is against the rules, but might trigger suspicion to a computer algorithm. I am terrified that my benefits will stop & that I will be interrogated which will be devastating for my MH. Also there are bound to be hundreds & thousands of flagged activities, how long will it take for them to process them all, how will we live while they check us all? It's utterly horrifying.

Tonawanda17

I agree meg24. Does anyone know how long banks keep records for?

Tonawanda17

Hi, i read this article on B&W. It mentions to begin with that it will be means-tested benefits only. Does anyone know how the banks will know who is means tested and who is not? Thanks.

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/almost-9-million-claimant-bank-accounts-to-be-put-under-continuous-surveillance

chalkyman

woodbine said:

There have been numerous discussions on here about this and as I've commented in every one of them "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about"

I was discussing this with friends. It's not just about having nothing to hide as I don't. I see this more as an invasion of privacy. This is just one step away from more control that will have other implications. I think anyways 

poppy123456

Tonawanda17 said:

Hi, i read this article on B&W. It mentions to begin with that it will be means-tested benefits only. Does anyone know how the banks will know who is means tested and who is not? Thanks.

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/almost-9-million-claimant-bank-accounts-to-be-put-under-continuous-surveillance

This was taken from that link. The new system will begin to be rolled out in 2025, though all banks may not be fully involved before 2030.

Tonawanda17

Hi poppy. Thanks for replying. Yes, I saw that in the article but I guess it could change after the general election

honestjon

letitbe said:

woodbine said:

letitbe said:

poppy123456 said:

Tonawanda17 said:

Hi, i read this article on B&W. It mentions to begin with that it will be means-tested benefits only. Does anyone know how the banks will know who is means tested and who is not? Thanks.

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/almost-9-million-claimant-bank-accounts-to-be-put-under-continuous-surveillance

This was taken from that link. The new system will begin to be rolled out in 2025, though all banks may not be fully involved before 2030.

Yes I read that link too and a few of the comments - lots of people worried about DWP checking up on what you’re  spending your money on and people thinking they’ll be questioned over all transactions and withdrawals .  

I don't see any intention on them checking what we are spending money on it will all be about capital limits and undeclared income nothing more nothing less 

If you suffer from any kind of anxiety you’d realise why a lot of people who do suffer from it are worried sick - it’s the very nature of anxiety . 

“If you’ve done nothing wrong you’ve nothing to worry about “ 
is also an unhelpful phrase for people who suffer anxiety.  

The very nature of anxiety means people who suffer from it are worried about things they shouldn’t worry about . 

If people are anxious then they are probably going to find something to worry about so I understand that.
The benefits system is being ripped off by a lot of people and I think that's mainly what the bank checks are for.
They won't be checking what you buy because if it's for sale you are allowed to buy it and it's your own money.
When I go to the supermarket I know there are cameras watching for thieves but I do not w

honestjon

letitbe said:

woodbine said:

letitbe said:

poppy123456 said:

Tonawanda17 said:

Hi, i read this article on B&W. It mentions to begin with that it will be means-tested benefits only. Does anyone know how the banks will know who is means tested and who is not? Thanks.

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/almost-9-million-claimant-bank-accounts-to-be-put-under-continuous-surveillance

This was taken from that link. The new system will begin to be rolled out in 2025, though all banks may not be fully involved before 2030.

Yes I read that link too and a few of the comments - lots of people worried about DWP checking up on what you’re  spending your money on and people thinking they’ll be questioned over all transactions and withdrawals .  

I don't see any intention on them checking what we are spending money on it will all be about capital limits and undeclared income nothing more nothing less 

If you suffer from any kind of anxiety you’d realise why a lot of people who do suffer from it are worried sick - it’s the very nature of anxiety . 

“If you’ve done nothing wrong you’ve nothing to worry about “ 
is also an unhelpful phrase for people who suffer anxiety.  

The very nature of anxiety means people who suffer from it are worried about things they shouldn’t worry about . 

If people are anxious then they are probably going to find something to worry about so I understand that.
The benefits system is being ripped off by a lot of people and I think that's mainly what the bank checks are for.
They won't be checking what you buy because if it's for sale you are allowed to buy it and it's your own money.
When I go to the supermarket I know there are cameras watching for thieves but I do not worry at all.

Albus_Scope

There's a tiny percentage of people who are committing benefit fraud. I think all the stories of people being turned down for PIP etc shows it's hard enough claiming in the first place.  
 But the government appear to like having a boogey man and benefit fraudsters are their usual go to as it's coming up to election time.  

But this is something we shouldn't be taking harsh tones with each other about.  We're here to support each other. 

Tonawanda17

Hi, do we even know if/when this got through the house of lords?

Albus_Scope

noman said:

Yawwwwnnnnn

Noman, please remember our community house rules; Civil, supportive, safe. 

Albus_Scope

letitbe said:

I agree . 

I Apologise if I’ve come across as abrupt but I’m someone who has an extreme  panic/anxiety  disorder and worry about absolutely everything. I spend my benefits on whatever I want but it doesn’t stop me worrying that I’ll be questioned about it. 

Not a worry @letitbe, I have the same issue and understand it's very hard to control it at times. 

Tonawanda17

Sorry to be a pain but Hi, do we even know if/when this got through the house of lords?

I see the information comissioner has some serious concerns which he has raised