Anyone a member of the local government pension scheme who applied for ill health retirement?

NewOrl1007

Ah I'm a little confused as above it talks about you having to sign a from to say you agree to giving them access to all your records. So they can't just access everything? It's specific to your diagnoses that prevent you from working- in my case that is ME and Orthostatic hypotension. I have a history of other things and am just worried that would be open to scrutiny. Thank for you coming back to me so quickly. Also I'm trying to find anywhere to can get free impartial advice on all this but keep coming to a dead end. Any ideas?

Phil1868

could you speak with occupational health or your local doctor to find out what they get access to. I can’t remember what was said to me and don’t want to tell you the wrong information, sorry I can’t help you any more than that.

Jimm_Scope

While you sign a form saying you give them the right to see certain information, GDPR is still very important and strict when it comes to medical information. They should only ask for, and receive, information that they actually need. You could speak to your GP surgery, the practice manager may be a better person to speak to than a doctor. As the practice manager tends to be the one overseeing the administrative tasks, such as information requests.

Bydand

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/909965#Comment_909965

The pension provider will have access to you’re full medical records and you will sign to say that you give permission for them too access your records but they will concentrate on the main condition or illness that you are citing as causing you work issues and that is what they will look into in depth.

At the conclusion of the IHR process when they make their decision one way or the other your employer and yourself will get exactly the same report.

You should be aware that if you are unsuccessful in your IHR application then it is likely that your employer will dismiss you as you yourself have stated you are so unwell that you can’t work despite not being successful.

It is not a nice position to be in but you cannot go into the IHR process halfheartedly. By initiating the process you are effectively stating to your employer that you are not fit. I would say, and from my own experience, if you have applied for IHR then you have already exhausted all other options open to you and you accept that IHR is a last resort. It is not a case of staying in work and managing/ struggling or applying for IHR, you should be so ill that you cannot work ( either in your own role or any other job).

in most cases an IHR application would come on the back of you being ill for years, having had numerous OH referrals, back to work plans and reasonable adjustments…..The pension provider will expect all or most of these to be the case as it paints a picture of your deteriorating health and how it has affected you.

The biggest thing you will have to prove is permanency of the condition and associated symptoms. If there is any dispute over this then it is likely the application will fail.

NewOrl1007

Thank-you so much for your honeest and frank reply. This is exactly what I had in the back of my mind and reaffirms my take on IHR. May I ask one last thing? If worst case scenario happens and your IRH application is denied and your employer then dismisses you on grounds of ill health/capability (however they want to frame it) can you appeal the decision with the pension provider and if so how many times can you do this before you can have to give up and wait until retirement age to claim whatever is there in your pot?

Bydand

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/910961#Comment_910961

I think being honest in relation to any IHR application is only right due to the very nature of what’s involved and the potential consequences of applying.

I do realise the stresses caused by being ill and under pressure at work. I fought for a long time to stay at work but in hindsight was only making my condition worse. Obviously the financial aspect is likely the main worry for anyone thinking about applying and no one should underestimate how much pressure one can be under.

I can only speak from a civil service pension provider but having done my own homework in relation to my own IHR application it would appear that most IHR applications are very similar so I would imagine that you would very likely have an opportunity to appeal. The following is from my pension provider but may be along the lines of what you have asked.

What if I disagree with the Scheme Medical Adviser’s assessment?

If you disagree with the content of the report and your disagreement relates to medical opinion (rather than factual errors), or you have additional evidence you would like to be taken into account, the only way to challenge this is to follow the formal appeals procedure.

• The Medical Reviews and Appeals Guide provides details of the appeals procedure. Your employer should give you a copy of this guidance. 
• You cannot appeal against the scheme medical adviser’s assessment if you withdraw consent for the report and certificate confirming whether or not you have qualifying medical reason for ill health retirement to be issued to your employer (see ‘Withdrawing consent for the Scheme Medical Adviser to send their report to your employer’).
• The appeal period does not start until your employer has formally told you whether or not your ill health retirement assessment has been successful.
• 
  My advice for what it is worth if you haven’t already done so is get a copy of your specific pension policy and go through it very thoroughly, and then do it several more times. Pay particular attention too the criteria you must meet and importantly what they judge you against…ie permanency, likelihood etc…those are the key words they will want to hear from your own medical specialist.
• 
  it might be worth taking a quick look at the civil service IHR process as it gives a good overview of the process which I am fairly certain is consistent throughout many organisations and employers. https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/your-pension/work-life/illness-and-injury/ill-health-retirement/
• 
  shout out if you think I can help in any way. Hearing advice from others who have been there makes the world of difference so don’t feel like you are ever asking too many questions.

NewOrl1007

Thank you so much!

jabbers1

@Bydand

Hi there

I was just reading your comment regarding the pension provider having access to our full medical record. Can you advise me how they get access to this? I have spoken to my GP about this and he advised me that under no circumstances would he release my full medical record, nor have I been asked to allow anyone to access it. Occupational health had me sign a form to obtain a report from my GP. Really confused about this now 🥴

Bydand

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/910993#Comment_910993

Hi, When you officially begin the process of the IHR application itself there will be parts to it which you will have to give consent too, or not…..one of those consents will be in relation to accessing your medical notes…..another one of those consents will likely be giving your consent to the pensions medical Officer contacting various healthcare professionals involved in your care. Consent is usually needed for each individual you are ok for them communicating with, so this could be say 3 individuals..gp, specialist consultant, physiotherapist, so 3 individual consents needed.

OH is not directly responsible for the IHR process, that falls to your HR who should coordinate everything and the pension providers chief medical Officer. It’s the CMO who needs to collate all the information from all the different sources in order to make a decision.

OH would have needed your consent to get a report from your gp but this would be to help them make decisions and communicate these to your employer and you…….it is usual practice for an employer who has serious concerns over your health and wellbeing to ask OH for a report and a decision on whether you meet the criteria for ill health…….

If it is believed that you do meet IHR criteria then this may be communicated to you but and this is important No one can make the decision to apply for IHR on your behalf…that decision must come from you and you yourself have to initiate it.

I would not worry about them delving deep into your medical records, they are only interested in the condition or illness that you are stating is causing you issues with working. You will as part of the application have been asked to provide various details about what is stopping you working and it is this they will want to explore and check against their very specific criteria.

Any pensions report will only detail the specifics of the condition you are citing as stopping you working, nothing else, so your employer will not find out about anything else from years ago….they don’t need to know about anything else.

Can I ask, what stage are you at. Are you just under OH or have you started the actual IHR application?

jabbers1

thanks for explaining that. I’ve had my last meeting with OH who have started the IHR process on my employers behalf for which I had to give consent. They told my employer I was unfit to return to work in any capacity. So I then received paperwork from OH which I had to sign which allows them to contact my GP and any consultants involved in my care. They said it will then be passed to a doctor who will make a decision on whether or not I meet the criteria for IHR, my union rep explained the same. As I said, I was told that the only information they can ask for is anything relating to my reported conditions, not get access to my full record. ACAS told me the same. I’m not concerned what they see in my record, however it’s one of the only things in our life that is confidential and it prefer it stayed that way.

NewOrl1007

I'm still confused over all this. So they do have full access but won't delve? Why wouldn't they? My concern is other health issues, even from years ago that are no longer relevant will be used as "blame" for current chronic conditions and where there have been blatent errorsand misinterpreting of convos by doctors. I've been gaslit by own GPs may times so no doubt an OH one will be the same. In my case there was an incorrect note/regarding made that has since followed me and been used in offical letters where I have had to go back and say that it's not correct please remove that! I don't want that all rearing it's head again.

Phil1868

jabbers1

I have just looked at the above link for the civil service pension and the criteria is different to the lgp that I have.

If you are in the lgp just go on there website and look up IHR and it will explain everything on how you qualify and the process works.The independent doctor told me that even though he recommended I was unfit to work, the decision was up to my workplace( not my pension provider)and they could decide to disagree with the report.

By the way I am now in receipt of my lgp pension and after a few snags it’s all sorted.

Cheers Phil

jabbers1

Good morning. Yeah the LGPS referes fo “relevant”reports from GP’s and consultants. Everywhere I have looked I have been unable to find anything that mentions access to a full medical record. I was reading legislation in relation to full medical records and despite some pension providers stating they will request these, it would only be a doctor acting on there behalf that would be allowed to view these and is unable to share any information gathered with a 3rd party, ie HR or OH. It seems a complete minefield. I’m so happy for you that you were able do obtain your pension. Hopefully you can start to breathe and heal in some sense.

Phil1868

jabbers1

I did forget to say the doctor had to be approved by the lgp and a report is sent to them also, not sure about medical records though and I was led to believe that the decision was made by my work place(but I could be wrong)

I’ve got to say that once I was in receipt of my pension a massive weight was lifted from my shoulders. I still haven’t made a remarkable recovery though 😔

Good luck with the outcome, I hope it goes smoothly for you.

Cheers Phil

jabbers1

@Phil1868 hey Phil. Thought I would update you; my application for IHR was refused. Now need do start the appeals process 😔

Phil1868

Hi Jabbers

That’s not good news 😔Did they say why???

Hope your appeal goes well

All the best

Phil

jabbers1

Hi Phil

No they didn’t; that’s why I am so upset I think. I expected a refusal with comments such as all therapies or medications haven't been tried. However, my GP report was extremely supportive of IHR and stated that all treatment options had been exhausted. Despite this, the IRMP wrote that I could return to work as my conditions “come and go” I’m unsure why he thinks this or why he thinks M.E, chronic back pain, Autism, ADHD, severe depression, anxiety, OCD and complex PTSD “comes and goes” ; how I wish this were true. He did not detail how I could return to work or what medication or therapy would help me return to work, nothing!
just feeling completely lost and completely overwhelmed. The process thus far has already taken so much out of me, really don’t know where I’m going to find the strength or information to fight this 😔

Phil1868

That’s terrible, stick with your appeal and hopefully you can get the decision overturned. Strangely enough I was talking about my IHR today and said that I feel lucky to have got accepted for it, even though luck should never come into the equation, I just think some medical professionals don’t take M.E seriously 😟

Take care

Phil

jabbers1

yeah you’re absolutely right; they don’t. Something tells me I’m in for a fight. Was it the LGPS you were with?

Phil1868

yes it was lgps.