Any possibility of a Judaism and disability event?

wandering_chris

Hi, I just saw the Islam and Disability event and I wondered if there was any event planned around Judaism and disability. I ask as through friends I know there are many issues that disabled Jews face, and I know friends who'd benefit.

Albus_Scope

Hi @wandering_chris, thanks for the suggestion, I'll tag @Giovanni_Scope so they can look into it.

Jimm_Alumni

This would be quite interesting! I also have people very close to me who are both disabled and Jewish. 

chiarieds

I must admit I'm with woodbine here. I had thought about saying & what about 'Christianity & disability,' but thought some might think I was in some way being derogatory, so didn't say it. It is I feel putting people in separate niches (& the list could become endless...'Jehovah's Witnesses & disability,' Catholicism & disability,' Buddhism & disability,' 'atheism & disability,' etc), whereas we should be united. Our different religions, or none, our varying cultures, etc. don't change a person's disability.

It's the same when you see about black people & disability, but white people & disability I feel would never be mentioned. It all seems a bit odd to me. I have respect for all religions, & the more I've read over the years makes me feel we have more similarities than differences, so why are 'differences' being made with regard to disabled people?

WhatThe

Women and disability anyone...?

WhatThe

chiarieds, I do consider that Black people face incomparable discrimination in all respects (even more so than women!) and that disability would be a secondary factor for them. 

Just as men get to decide what equality is (raising our retirement age by 7 years for example), I don't believe that white people can possibly imagine what it is to be Black. 

  

WhatThe

It is MEN who feel victimised in the modern world as they call it. Men who invent religions and cults. Men who rule the world, make laws and wars in the name of religion. 

The event was of tremendous importance to us all - vital because of the threats we face in the UK from extremists. I thought the question was ridiculous, personally.   

WhatThe

White men that is.

MW123

@Albus_Scope @Jimm_Scope

Events such as this one should have a more inclusive approach, extending their reach beyond just religious communities. In light of this sentiment, I would like to request that a link to a recording of the event be made available to members afterwards.

Providing access to the recording would enable all community members to view the discussions at their convenience and form their own opinions. I am of the firm belief that issues of disability and chronic illness are not selective of one's faith or socioeconomic status; people from all religious backgrounds face similar societal challenges.

Should a recording be made available, I intend to watch it with an open and receptive mindset, acknowledging that my own views may be subject to change, potentially leading me to a conclusion that differs from my current understanding.

 

 

wandering_chris

chiarieds said:

I must admit I'm with woodbine here. I had thought about saying & what about 'Christianity & disability,' but thought some might think I was in some way being derogatory, so didn't say it. It is I feel putting people in separate niches (& the list could become endless...'Jehovah's Witnesses & disability,' Catholicism & disability,' Buddhism & disability,' 'atheism & disability,' etc), whereas we should be united. Our different religions, or none, our varying cultures, etc. don't change a person's disability.

It's the same when you see about black people & disability, but white people & disability I feel would never be mentioned. It all seems a bit odd to me. I have respect for all religions, & the more I've read over the years makes me feel we have more similarities than differences, so why are 'differences' being made with regard to disabled people?

The thing is someone who is Disabled and Jewish has the double whammy of antisemitism + ableism and also how they're more prone, as the average bigot sees them as physically weaker. Then, add on how the system (social services and the like) deals with issues around Kosher, the holidays, etc.

There's a whole lot of weight you are burdened with when in two minorities, and it's important those that who don't know learn how that feels and, those in that situation have guidance and support.

A friend of mine has attempted suicide because of this, he's ok and getting help, but this is what its like for some people

WhatThe

Religion is a choice.

Disability isn't. Gender isn't. Colour isn't. 

wandering_chris

WhatThe said:

Religion is a choice.

Disability isn't. Gender isn't. Colour isn't. 

FYI Jews are an Ethnoreligious group, a person can be ethnically Jewish or Jewish by religion.

chiarieds

Thank you for your input @wandering_chris - & I do truly appreciate it. I think what both woodbine & Whatthe have tried to intimate, that yes, there is unfortunately discrimination that shouldn't ever happen, which can occur due to your religion, ethnicity, sexuality, even age, but we're all disabled people, which should unify us.

I always taught my children, perhaps a simplistic view, that in part who you are may have depended on where you were born, & any religious beliefs your parents had. This, I hope, is why they also just accept people for who they are regardless, & are respectful.

In many ways you're no doubt right, as I can't know how it feels. I feel @MW123 has perhaps understood things better. We should all be made aware of the difficulties any group of disabled people encounter, I was just concerned about disabled people differentiating between each other, which I'd never want to happen, but yes, we can still learn from each other. I hope this has made sense.

wandering_chris

chiarieds said:

Thank you for your input @wandering_chris - & I do truly appreciate it. I think what both woodbine & Whatthe have tried to intimate, that yes, there is unfortunately discrimination that shouldn't ever happen, which can occur due to your religion, ethnicity, sexuality, even age, but we're all disabled people, which should unify us.

I always taught my children, perhaps a simplistic view, that in part who you are may have depended on where you were born, & any religious beliefs your parents had. This, I hope, is why they also just accept people for who they are regardless, & are respectful.

In many ways you're no doubt right, as I can't know how it feels. I feel @MW123 has perhaps understood things better. We should all be made aware of the difficulties any group of disabled people encounter, I was just concerned about disabled people differentiating between each other, which I'd never want to happen, but yes, we can still learn from each other. I hope this has made sense.

indeed, it's just we all face challenges as unique as our disabilities and the bodies they encompass, also some of those challenges are aggravated by other characteristics, and we can't ignore this, nor can Scope if it truly is a charity representing the true realities of disabled people - Which I believe it is.

I leave you with the well-known disability rights slogan "Nothing about us, without us"

WhatThe

Religion is still not relevant to disability in a secular society..

Gender is the primary difference in all societies and we're nowhere near tackling the discrimination that all girls and women face. That's a much bigger task if we want equality for all. 
There isn't a woman on earth who doesn't know what discrimination feels like/looks like/sounds like as the weaker sex. 

wandering_chris

WhatThe said:

Religion is still not relevant to disability in a secular society..

Gender is the primary difference in all societies and we're nowhere near tackling the discrimination that all girls and women face. That's a much bigger task if we want equality for all. 
There isn't a woman on earth who doesn't know what discrimination feels like/looks like/sounds like as the weaker sex. 

So antisemitism and islamophobia don't matter? Try telling that to my friend who tried killing himself after being targeted the 13th time. I'm done here, plain ignorant of other's experiences to push your view. Also, real feminists stand with victims of antisemitism, not ignore them - Believe me, I know, more than you think for reasons I can not go into.

WhatThe

Your words not mine. 
Perhaps we could find out more about the event in question rather than feel threatened by it or under-represented. 

Real feminists stand with all victims. 

MW123

wandering_chris said:

WhatThe said:

Religion is still not relevant to disability in a secular society..

Gender is the primary difference in all societies and we're nowhere near tackling the discrimination that all girls and women face. That's a much bigger task if we want equality for all. 
There isn't a woman on earth who doesn't know what discrimination feels like/looks like/sounds like as the weaker sex. 

So antisemitism and islamophobia don't matter? Try telling that to my friend who tried killing himself after being targeted the 13th time. I'm done here, plain ignorant of other's experiences to push your view. Also, real feminists stand with victims of antisemitism, not ignore them - Believe me, I know, more than you think for reasons I can not go into.

It is vital not to engage in comparisons between different types of discrimination, be it based on religion, such as Islam and Judaism, or on gender that might imply one form of oppression is more severe than another. Each form of discrimination is distinct and should be treated as such. It is preferable to address these issues with a sense of empathy and a unified determination to achieve justice for everyone. 

After reading the above I have concerns about Scope's recent shift towards creating events for specific religious groups. While I commend their effort to broaden inclusivity, this approach will inadvertently create divisions within the disability community.

By focusing on particular religious disability demographics, Scope risks alienating individuals from other faiths, those without religious ties, or those who perceive their own religion and as being neglected. Delving into sensitive discrimination religious matters might lead to conflicts that detract from Scope's primary objective.

Scope might find it more advantageous to host events that are universally welcoming, emphasising common experiences and fostering unity across the disability community as a whole.

WhatThe

I don't know which events Scope has hosted ever. How else do we address these timeless problems without dialogue though?

I got the impression that four women hosted this and I've no idea who initiated it. Someone will be along shortly to explain I'm sure

WhatThe

If somebody wants to start a thread about religion then they can. Religious divides aren't the fault of Scope. It's just not special in terms of disability which is what connects us on this forum. 

MW123

WhatThe said:

I don't know which events Scope has hosted ever. How else do we address these timeless problems without dialogue though?

I got the impression that four women hosted this and I've no idea who initiated it. Someone will be along shortly to explain I'm sure

The upcoming event is scheduled for 26.02.2024, and hasn't taken place yet. My understanding is there will be four guest speakers discussing the experiences of disabled individuals within the Muslim community. 

While I am confident that the event will be engaging and enlightening, there is a valid concern that the wording of the event might inadvertently make members of other religious beliefs within Scope feel somewhat excluded.