How do you record self-employment earnings when not "gainfully self-employed"?

LRBH66

I am on UC due to being unable to work (autism and multiple chronic health conditions). The "Money Saving Expert" website has a list of websites which pay you for doing surveys, which is about what I could handle at the moment given brain fog etc. It says to record the money you're paid as "self-employment earnings".

But when I look at my UC account in the advice about recording earnings while self-employed, it talks about running my own business and says they'll reduce my money based on the assumption I'm making at least minimum wage. I am not expecting to get anywhere close to that.

I'm sure this is me getting muddled and missing something obvious, but what am I supposed to do if intermittently earning a small amount of money? I'm scared that they'll think I'm no longer disabled and expect me to look for full-time work.

poppy123456

You can't be found to be gainfully self employed without telling UC that you're self employed. You will then need to attend a gateway appointment at your local job centre with a work coach. You then need to tell them about the work that you do and then they will make a decision. 

LRBH66 said:

But when I look at my UC account in the advice about recording earnings while self-employed, it talks about running my own business and says they'll reduce my money based on the assumption I'm making at least minimum wage. I am not expecting to get anywhere close to that.

That's related to the Minimum income floor which wouldn't apply for the first 12 months, this is known as the "start up period"

Have you been through the work capability assessment and been found to have either LCW or LCWRA? If so then the minimum income floor won't apply to you anyway. 

See link. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-and-self-employment-quick-guide/universal-credit-and-self-employment-quick-guide

Albus_Scope

Hi @LRBH66 and welcome to the community. 

I can see Poppy has already given you some top advice, but I just wanted to pop in and say hello.

LRBH66

poppy123456 said:

You can't be found to be gainfully self employed without telling UC that you're self employed. You will then need to attend a gateway appointment at your local job centre with a work coach. You then need to tell them about the work that you do and then they will make a decision. 

LRBH66 said:

But when I look at my UC account in the advice about recording earnings while self-employed, it talks about running my own business and says they'll reduce my money based on the assumption I'm making at least minimum wage. I am not expecting to get anywhere close to that.

That's related to the Minimum income floor which wouldn't apply for the first 12 months, this is known as the "start up period"

Have you been through the work capability assessment and been found to have either LCW or LCWRA? If so then the minimum income floor won't apply to you anyway. 

See link. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-and-self-employment-quick-guide/universal-credit-and-self-employment-quick-guide

Hello!! Thank you for replying. 👋

I was assessed and told I'm not fit for work (accurate) and haven't had any contact with the DWP since, so I believe I'm LCWRA. My fear is that if I register as self employed they'll retract my assessment and go back to harassing me to find full-time work, which was stressful and overwhelming. But I don't want to get in trouble for fraud either. Especially for the sake of a few amazon vouchers a month.

poppy123456

Lots of people work when found to have LCWRA, although I'm not sure if the surveys will be classed as self employed if I'm honest. 

LRBH66

poppy123456 said:

Lots of people work when found to have LCWRA, although I'm not sure if the surveys will be classed as self employed if I'm honest. 

Ok, that's good to know, thank you. After reading through the site you linked (very helpful, thanks again!) it looks like I shouldn't get called for reassessment so long as I'm doing less than 16hrs a week at minimum wage (hope I'm reading this right and not getting muddled...) which is far beyond my capacities anyway.

I'm not sure whether surveys count as "work" either, but survey websites say to report earnings to HRMC as self-employed income. https://www.paidsurveysuk.com/about/paying-taxes-on-survey-income-in-the-uk/
Unless the rules are different if you're disabled/on UC? I can't find any specific guidelines for my situation. Everywhere seems to be assuming you're doing this alongside other work. 🙁

Do you think I should write a note in my UC journal about it and report when I make enough to withdraw a voucher?

poppy123456

LRBH66 said:

poppy123456 said:

Lots of people work when found to have LCWRA, although I'm not sure if the surveys will be classed as self employed if I'm honest. 

Ok, that's good to know, thank you. After reading through the site you linked (very helpful, thanks again!) it looks like I shouldn't get called for reassessment so long as I'm doing less than 16hrs a week at minimum wage (hope I'm reading this right and not getting muddled...) which is far beyond my capacities anyway.

That doesn't apply to you because you've already been found to have LCWRA. This means there's no maximum amount of hours or earnings. The 16xNMW earnings/week only applies to those that haven't had a work capability assessment and do not claim a disability benefit such as PIP/DLA or ADP. 

I'm really not sure what this would be treated as. It maybe better for you to get some expert advice from an agency near you before doing anything else. 

You have the work allowance for your UC anyway. This means a certain amount of earnings you receive each month is ignored before any deductions apply. If you claim for help with the rent it will be £379/month. If you don't it will be £631/month. 

LRBH66

poppy123456 said:

LRBH66 said:

poppy123456 said:

Lots of people work when found to have LCWRA, although I'm not sure if the surveys will be classed as self employed if I'm honest. 

Ok, that's good to know, thank you. After reading through the site you linked (very helpful, thanks again!) it looks like I shouldn't get called for reassessment so long as I'm doing less than 16hrs a week at minimum wage (hope I'm reading this right and not getting muddled...) which is far beyond my capacities anyway.

That doesn't apply to you because you've already been found to have LCWRA. This means there's no maximum amount of hours or earnings. The 16xNMW earnings/week only applies to those that haven't had a work capability assessment and do not claim a disability benefit such as PIP/DLA or ADP. 

I'm really not sure what this would be treated as. It maybe better for you to get some expert advice from an agency near you before doing anything else. 

You have the work allowance for your UC anyway. This means a certain amount of earnings you receive each month is ignored before any deductions apply. If you claim for help with the rent it will be £379/month. If you don't it will be £631/month. 

Ok, I will see if I can find an agency to ask. Thanks again for your help. 🙂