Personal Independence Payment and the reforms

Waiting001

What does this recent statement on PIP changes mean? Are these changes likely to be pre- or post-election? Is this just a manifesto pledge with an election around the corner? How long can these measures take to come in? If a Labour government comes in, is it likely that this will not happen? I am just asking because I am a bit concerned.

poppy123456

No one knows what it means yet but as we are all aware of the general election this year the changes may not even happen.

Waiting001

@poppy123456 thank you for the response. When do you think we will likely to find out more?  

poppy123456

I have no idea, sorry. 

TheManFromLondon

Waiting001 said:

@poppy123456 thank you for the response. When do you think we will likely to find out more?  

The day after the election, you and everyone else will know, what is said now was just blah blah to distract the public for more serious matters. The current government has no chance in hell to be in office next year same day.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/uk-opinion-polls

Dont worry about it (as far as Tories go), and post a reply on my comment 24h after the next general election to tell me if I was right or not.

Waiting001

@TheManFromLondon thanks for your response. I see from reading iNews that the reforms for PIP will be promised, in the form of new legislation, in the next parliament.

Reforms due to take place “in the next parliament” will depend on either the Conservatives winning the next election or Labour agreeing to implement the same changes.

I do not think the Tories will win this coming election. Labour will hopefully be better in their policies. 

TheManFromLondon

Waiting001 said:

@TheManFromLondon thanks for your response. I see from reading iNews that the reforms for PIP will be promised, in the form of new legislation, in the next parliament.

Reforms due to take place “in the next parliament” will depend on either the Conservatives winning the next election or Labour agreeing to implement the same changes.

I do not think the Tories will win this coming election. Labour will hopefully be better in their policies. 

It will not conclude before the elections. It will have a series of revisions and it will be far in 2025 when it will or not pass vote and unknown to what kind of format. Labour or any shadow is not the pet of any government.

I hear what you say, dont feel I am antagonising you, I assure you we are on the same page, but the next government will not cut slack to this one, they will make this and all other matters so difficult so they set the rules themselves when with 400 seats they will vote anything and how they like it to be.

You want to predict what the big subject will be when the new parliament opens? Energy prices. If you think it was bad for 2 years, you are in a for a nightmare. The common man, has no idea what is coming in the next 6 months.

Brace yourselves.

apple85

I think I said this before in forum before

but the default uk vote is too vote in a Tory government (seriously wiki it - in the last century the conservatives have been in charge 63yrs and labour 37yrs)

point is that the tories have to seriously fudge up to booted from government (which they have done) - they have public patience in the way labour will never been granted (case and point labour should of had this coming election 100% sewn up a year but they haven’t - and many are only voting for labour because they are the best of a bad bunch)

The public has just dealt with 14 years of **** (poverty, recessions, reduction in real living wage and cost of living for starters) - do you honestly think labour will go beyond one term if they don’t significantly differ from the tories 

backlash against policies like the ones sunak wants to carry out is starting to get backlash from moderates whom up till now have stayed quiet over politicians targeting of the disabled.

if labour get voted in and pick up where the tories left off welfare and disability treatment/rights the backlash will be even bigger - not a great start if you want 10yrs+ in power

sunaks got nothing to lose with his speech yesterday - he and the tories have the luxary of things not getting much worse so they may as well list their nasty desires and see if the public agree

starmer doesn’t have the luxary to be hated off the bat

TheManFromLondon

@apple85 all valid points.

As for that speech... "give them anxiety and depressed people counsellors and specialists, not money"... well good luck with that, counsellors and specialists are harder than money to find. Waiting list for one is longer than waiting for money to grow on trees. Oh and if its us disabled people who take the billions, whats next? Maybe prisoners? Maybe he let them all free, and instead of sentences give them CBT to reform them. According to him, all problems are solved with a chat.

Circus.

And with all respect, 100 years of politics, never seen such malarkey we saw in the last 5 years. I dont care which party or even country it was, the whole planet has gone bananas and disastrous ideas just pop like they spill from the lips of drunk people out of a dark pub at 4am.

Whats next? What we have in the back of our minds? The ultimate reset (wealth redistribution)? For the shake of my children, I hope not, but for the temple of their (politics) God (greed), it seems very possible. War Part III.

TheManFromLondon

My previous post disappeared, but i will not write it again. I agree to all you said.

Here's whats going to happen, in my opinion:

People are concerned certain descriptors of the WCA will fly away. Of course, PIP will cover them and thats it, if you have those issues, go fetch PIP (if you can), get WCA with it. That is finalised, I do not see this to change, its perfect as it is so simple.

Now, about this malarkey for no money, get counselling or specialists, translates to this simple concept that will come to light soon after this reform will start to be debated: "You need a diagnosis, and be on medication to apply for PIP." Again, perfect, because it is simple.

Those two simple, perfect points, will make sense to who? 1. ANYONE who is not disabled (large share of voters) so they dont see a vicious government breaching the Disability act 2010, and 2. the disabled people who DO have a diagnosis, hence Divide and Conquer.

The most common question in disability forums, is their key to slash down the money they spend on it: "I have no diagnosis, am I eligible for PIP?" The answer will be soon: No.

So there, no diagnosis, no PIP, no WCA. Money aside.

Watch that space.

apple85

woodbine said:

Benefit reforms take for ever, PIP was introduced in 2012 and there are still adults on DLA today.

Fair point - I agree

However the past few years we’ve had increasingly desperate politicans trying to rush through badly thought out ideas

its ironic that sunak is targeting those with mental health issues as he and his cronies are sounding increasingly not in sane mind!

Meg24

TheManFromLondon said:

My previous post disappeared, but i will not write it again. I agree to all you said.

Here's whats going to happen, in my opinion:

People are concerned certain descriptors of the WCA will fly away. Of course, PIP will cover them and thats it, if you have those issues, go fetch PIP (if you can), get WCA with it. That is finalised, I do not see this to change, its perfect as it is so simple.

Now, about this malarkey for no money, get counselling or specialists, translates to this simple concept that will come to light soon after this reform will start to be debated: "You need a diagnosis, and be on medication to apply for PIP." Again, perfect, because it is simple.

Those two simple, perfect points, will make sense to who? 1. ANYONE who is not disabled (large share of voters) so they dont see a vicious government breaching the Disability act 2010, and 2. the disabled people who DO have a diagnosis, hence Divide and Conquer.

The most common question in disability forums, is their key to slash down the money they spend on it: "I have no diagnosis, am I eligible for PIP?" The answer will be soon: No.

So there, no diagnosis, no PIP, no WCA. Money aside.

Watch that space.

I saw my first & last psychiatrist when I was 18, when I had been so dysfunctional that I'd been abusing hard drugs. He told me to grow up and stop upsetting my mother. I have no idea whether he gave me a label but as it was a private hospital nearly 40 yrs ago I'll never know. This experience coupled with a short stint of work experience in a psych ward where I witnessed horrendous abuse of patients by staff, convinced me I would never allow myself to be sucked into the system. I have been cared for instead for over 20 yrs by NHS psychotherapists who don't assign diagnostic labels - so I don't have one. Also through the therapy I have come to understand how having one would also be an existential threat as I have parts of me that would weaponise that information and unilaterally act to harm me. It might be simple, but there will be some of us who wrongly fall on the wrong side of the line, even with plenty of medical history. 

TheManFromLondon

TheManFromLondon said:

The most common question in disability forums, is their key to slash down the money they spend on it: "I have no diagnosis, am I eligible for PIP?" The answer will be soon: No.

So there, no diagnosis, no PIP, no WCA. Money aside.

Watch that space.

I hate to say I said so...

"This includes looking at whether evidence of a formal diagnosis by a medical expert should be a requirement to be assessed as eligible for PIP."

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/dwp-announces-three-key-changes-104648350.html

poppy123456

It's the Birmingham mail, I don't think anything more needs to be said, especially when it says this.

"The DWP says this could mean those with specific long-term conditions or disabilities such as terminal illnesses wouldn't need an assessment at all."

Terminal illness for benefits refers to someone with a diagnosis of 12 months or less left to live. Those do not need assessments and their claims are usually fast tracked anyway. 

bobby123

Does anyone know what time this green paper will be released

apple85

Here you go

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/662b6e9bfee48e2ee6b81e68/modernising-support-for-independent-living-the-health-and-disability-green-paper.pdf

id recommend waiting for the benefit and work forum writeup as they usually explain things well and are level headed

jw68

TheManFromLondon said:

My previous post disappeared, but i will not write it again. I agree to all you said.

Here's whats going to happen, in my opinion:

People are concerned certain descriptors of the WCA will fly away. Of course, PIP will cover them and thats it, if you have those issues, go fetch PIP (if you can), get WCA with it. That is finalised, I do not see this to change, its perfect as it is so simple.

Now, about this malarkey for no money, get counselling or specialists, translates to this simple concept that will come to light soon after this reform will start to be debated: "You need a diagnosis, and be on medication to apply for PIP." Again, perfect, because it is simple.

Those two simple, perfect points, will make sense to who? 1. ANYONE who is not disabled (large share of voters) so they dont see a vicious government breaching the Disability act 2010, and 2. the disabled people who DO have a diagnosis, hence Divide and Conquer.

The most common question in disability forums, is their key to slash down the money they spend on it: "I have no diagnosis, am I eligible for PIP?" The answer will be soon: No.

So there, no diagnosis, no PIP, no WCA. Money aside.

Watch that space.

I like your style MFL...You speak a lot of common sense,and with a sprinkling of streetwisdom just for good measure.I had just about given up with this forum (quite a lot of my messages are censored).I will pop in  here more often,if only to read your contributions,but when the DLF (You'reAble) forum re-opens i will be back over there as quick as a shot.

MrSt0rM

You will find out in July what's going to happen i guess. 

Bydand

The most common question in disability forums, is their key to slash down the money they spend on it: "I have no diagnosis, am I eligible for PIP?" The answer will be soon: No.

So there, no diagnosis, no PIP, no WCA. Money aside.

Watch that space.



As someone who pops into this forum regularly, occasionally contributes but more often than not just reads the various posts I have to agree with TheManFromLondon . 

it has always struck me that in relation to PIP, not needing to have a registered diagnosis of a medical condition but still being able to apply for PIP is a loophole that I think any government is likely to look at again. This one facet of PIP alone which the Government could easily strengthen would undoubtedly save the Government money with very little effort.

I think anyone looking in from the outside with regards PIP would be surprised no diagnosis isn’t already a formal pre requisite to apply.

mrsBB

it was never intended to be based on a diagnosis. Two individuals who have exactly the same condition recorded in their NHS/GP notes might be at entirely different ends of the 'functional scale', one might be able to work, dress and shower themselves, the other may not be able to do any of those everyday activities. At least this is what I have always taken from the PIP process etc. 

jw68

woodbine said:

jw68 said:

TheManFromLondon said:

My previous post disappeared, but i will not write it again. I agree to all you said.

Here's whats going to happen, in my opinion:

People are concerned certain descriptors of the WCA will fly away. Of course, PIP will cover them and thats it, if you have those issues, go fetch PIP (if you can), get WCA with it. That is finalised, I do not see this to change, its perfect as it is so simple.

Now, about this malarkey for no money, get counselling or specialists, translates to this simple concept that will come to light soon after this reform will start to be debated: "You need a diagnosis, and be on medication to apply for PIP." Again, perfect, because it is simple.

Those two simple, perfect points, will make sense to who? 1. ANYONE who is not disabled (large share of voters) so they dont see a vicious government breaching the Disability act 2010, and 2. the disabled people who DO have a diagnosis, hence Divide and Conquer.

The most common question in disability forums, is their key to slash down the money they spend on it: "I have no diagnosis, am I eligible for PIP?" The answer will be soon: No.

So there, no diagnosis, no PIP, no WCA. Money aside.

Watch that space.

I like your style MFL...You speak a lot of common sense,and with a sprinkling of streetwisdom just for good measure.I had just about given up with this forum (quite a lot of my messages are censored).I will pop in  here more often,if only to read your contributions,but when the DLF (You'reAble) forum re-opens i will be back over there as quick as a shot.

I'm not sure where you get this idea that your post are censored  ???  One swallow does not maketh a Summer.This message above you refer to has been allowed to stand however,several others,criticising the DWP/Govt. have NOT.These messages were not overtly aggressive in any way.I understand that you have to cover your backs as to what is posted on here,hence your removing of my previous posts was not based on some warped ideology that offenders and reprobates (Govt. cabinet ministers in this case) are themselves the true victims of the piece.I presume it was more a case of moderating any criticism of the ruling Junta,lest action is taken by said body .Have a good day. :-)