Personal Independence Payment and the reforms

Waiting001

What does this recent statement on PIP changes mean? Are these changes likely to be pre- or post-election? Is this just a manifesto pledge with an election around the corner? How long can these measures take to come in? If a Labour government comes in, is it likely that this will not happen? I am just asking because I am a bit concerned.

poppy123456

No one knows what it means yet but as we are all aware of the general election this year the changes may not even happen.

Waiting001

@poppy123456 thank you for the response. When do you think we will likely to find out more?  

poppy123456

I have no idea, sorry. 

Waiting001

@TheManFromLondon thanks for your response. I see from reading iNews that the reforms for PIP will be promised, in the form of new legislation, in the next parliament.

Reforms due to take place “in the next parliament” will depend on either the Conservatives winning the next election or Labour agreeing to implement the same changes.

I do not think the Tories will win this coming election. Labour will hopefully be better in their policies. 

apple85

I think I said this before in forum before

but the default uk vote is too vote in a Tory government (seriously wiki it - in the last century the conservatives have been in charge 63yrs and labour 37yrs)

point is that the tories have to seriously fudge up to booted from government (which they have done) - they have public patience in the way labour will never been granted (case and point labour should of had this coming election 100% sewn up a year but they haven’t - and many are only voting for labour because they are the best of a bad bunch)

The public has just dealt with 14 years of **** (poverty, recessions, reduction in real living wage and cost of living for starters) - do you honestly think labour will go beyond one term if they don’t significantly differ from the tories 

backlash against policies like the ones sunak wants to carry out is starting to get backlash from moderates whom up till now have stayed quiet over politicians targeting of the disabled.

if labour get voted in and pick up where the tories left off welfare and disability treatment/rights the backlash will be even bigger - not a great start if you want 10yrs+ in power

sunaks got nothing to lose with his speech yesterday - he and the tories have the luxary of things not getting much worse so they may as well list their nasty desires and see if the public agree

starmer doesn’t have the luxary to be hated off the bat

apple85

woodbine said:

Benefit reforms take for ever, PIP was introduced in 2012 and there are still adults on DLA today.

Fair point - I agree

However the past few years we’ve had increasingly desperate politicans trying to rush through badly thought out ideas

its ironic that sunak is targeting those with mental health issues as he and his cronies are sounding increasingly not in sane mind!

Meg24

TheManFromLondon said:

My previous post disappeared, but i will not write it again. I agree to all you said.

Here's whats going to happen, in my opinion:

People are concerned certain descriptors of the WCA will fly away. Of course, PIP will cover them and thats it, if you have those issues, go fetch PIP (if you can), get WCA with it. That is finalised, I do not see this to change, its perfect as it is so simple.

Now, about this malarkey for no money, get counselling or specialists, translates to this simple concept that will come to light soon after this reform will start to be debated: "You need a diagnosis, and be on medication to apply for PIP." Again, perfect, because it is simple.

Those two simple, perfect points, will make sense to who? 1. ANYONE who is not disabled (large share of voters) so they dont see a vicious government breaching the Disability act 2010, and 2. the disabled people who DO have a diagnosis, hence Divide and Conquer.

The most common question in disability forums, is their key to slash down the money they spend on it: "I have no diagnosis, am I eligible for PIP?" The answer will be soon: No.

So there, no diagnosis, no PIP, no WCA. Money aside.

Watch that space.

I saw my first & last psychiatrist when I was 18, when I had been so dysfunctional that I'd been abusing hard drugs. He told me to grow up and stop upsetting my mother. I have no idea whether he gave me a label but as it was a private hospital nearly 40 yrs ago I'll never know. This experience coupled with a short stint of work experience in a psych ward where I witnessed horrendous abuse of patients by staff, convinced me I would never allow myself to be sucked into the system. I have been cared for instead for over 20 yrs by NHS psychotherapists who don't assign diagnostic labels - so I don't have one. Also through the therapy I have come to understand how having one would also be an existential threat as I have parts of me that would weaponise that information and unilaterally act to harm me. It might be simple, but there will be some of us who wrongly fall on the wrong side of the line, even with plenty of medical history. 

poppy123456

It's the Birmingham mail, I don't think anything more needs to be said, especially when it says this.

"The DWP says this could mean those with specific long-term conditions or disabilities such as terminal illnesses wouldn't need an assessment at all."

Terminal illness for benefits refers to someone with a diagnosis of 12 months or less left to live. Those do not need assessments and their claims are usually fast tracked anyway. 

apple85

Here you go

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/662b6e9bfee48e2ee6b81e68/modernising-support-for-independent-living-the-health-and-disability-green-paper.pdf

id recommend waiting for the benefit and work forum writeup as they usually explain things well and are level headed

jw68

TheManFromLondon said:

My previous post disappeared, but i will not write it again. I agree to all you said.

Here's whats going to happen, in my opinion:

People are concerned certain descriptors of the WCA will fly away. Of course, PIP will cover them and thats it, if you have those issues, go fetch PIP (if you can), get WCA with it. That is finalised, I do not see this to change, its perfect as it is so simple.

Now, about this malarkey for no money, get counselling or specialists, translates to this simple concept that will come to light soon after this reform will start to be debated: "You need a diagnosis, and be on medication to apply for PIP." Again, perfect, because it is simple.

Those two simple, perfect points, will make sense to who? 1. ANYONE who is not disabled (large share of voters) so they dont see a vicious government breaching the Disability act 2010, and 2. the disabled people who DO have a diagnosis, hence Divide and Conquer.

The most common question in disability forums, is their key to slash down the money they spend on it: "I have no diagnosis, am I eligible for PIP?" The answer will be soon: No.

So there, no diagnosis, no PIP, no WCA. Money aside.

Watch that space.

I like your style MFL...You speak a lot of common sense,and with a sprinkling of streetwisdom just for good measure.I had just about given up with this forum (quite a lot of my messages are censored).I will pop in  here more often,if only to read your contributions,but when the DLF (You'reAble) forum re-opens i will be back over there as quick as a shot.

MrSt0rM

You will find out in July what's going to happen i guess. 

Bydand

The most common question in disability forums, is their key to slash down the money they spend on it: "I have no diagnosis, am I eligible for PIP?" The answer will be soon: No.

So there, no diagnosis, no PIP, no WCA. Money aside.

Watch that space.



As someone who pops into this forum regularly, occasionally contributes but more often than not just reads the various posts I have to agree with TheManFromLondon . 

it has always struck me that in relation to PIP, not needing to have a registered diagnosis of a medical condition but still being able to apply for PIP is a loophole that I think any government is likely to look at again. This one facet of PIP alone which the Government could easily strengthen would undoubtedly save the Government money with very little effort.

I think anyone looking in from the outside with regards PIP would be surprised no diagnosis isn’t already a formal pre requisite to apply.

mrsBB

it was never intended to be based on a diagnosis. Two individuals who have exactly the same condition recorded in their NHS/GP notes might be at entirely different ends of the 'functional scale', one might be able to work, dress and shower themselves, the other may not be able to do any of those everyday activities. At least this is what I have always taken from the PIP process etc. 

jw68

woodbine said:

jw68 said:

TheManFromLondon said:

My previous post disappeared, but i will not write it again. I agree to all you said.

Here's whats going to happen, in my opinion:

People are concerned certain descriptors of the WCA will fly away. Of course, PIP will cover them and thats it, if you have those issues, go fetch PIP (if you can), get WCA with it. That is finalised, I do not see this to change, its perfect as it is so simple.

Now, about this malarkey for no money, get counselling or specialists, translates to this simple concept that will come to light soon after this reform will start to be debated: "You need a diagnosis, and be on medication to apply for PIP." Again, perfect, because it is simple.

Those two simple, perfect points, will make sense to who? 1. ANYONE who is not disabled (large share of voters) so they dont see a vicious government breaching the Disability act 2010, and 2. the disabled people who DO have a diagnosis, hence Divide and Conquer.

The most common question in disability forums, is their key to slash down the money they spend on it: "I have no diagnosis, am I eligible for PIP?" The answer will be soon: No.

So there, no diagnosis, no PIP, no WCA. Money aside.

Watch that space.

I like your style MFL...You speak a lot of common sense,and with a sprinkling of streetwisdom just for good measure.I had just about given up with this forum (quite a lot of my messages are censored).I will pop in  here more often,if only to read your contributions,but when the DLF (You'reAble) forum re-opens i will be back over there as quick as a shot.

I'm not sure where you get this idea that your post are censored  ???  One swallow does not maketh a Summer.This message above you refer to has been allowed to stand however,several others,criticising the DWP/Govt. have NOT.These messages were not overtly aggressive in any way.I understand that you have to cover your backs as to what is posted on here,hence your removing of my previous posts was not based on some warped ideology that offenders and reprobates (Govt. cabinet ministers in this case) are themselves the true victims of the piece.I presume it was more a case of moderating any criticism of the ruling Junta,lest action is taken by said body .Have a good day. :-)

jw68

woodbine said:

jw68 said:

TheManFromLondon said:

My previous post disappeared, but i will not write it again. I agree to all you said.

Here's whats going to happen, in my opinion:

People are concerned certain descriptors of the WCA will fly away. Of course, PIP will cover them and thats it, if you have those issues, go fetch PIP (if you can), get WCA with it. That is finalised, I do not see this to change, its perfect as it is so simple.

Now, about this malarkey for no money, get counselling or specialists, translates to this simple concept that will come to light soon after this reform will start to be debated: "You need a diagnosis, and be on medication to apply for PIP." Again, perfect, because it is simple.

Those two simple, perfect points, will make sense to who? 1. ANYONE who is not disabled (large share of voters) so they dont see a vicious government breaching the Disability act 2010, and 2. the disabled people who DO have a diagnosis, hence Divide and Conquer.

The most common question in disability forums, is their key to slash down the money they spend on it: "I have no diagnosis, am I eligible for PIP?" The answer will be soon: No.

So there, no diagnosis, no PIP, no WCA. Money aside.

Watch that space.

I like your style MFL...You speak a lot of common sense,and with a sprinkling of streetwisdom just for good measure.I had just about given up with this forum (quite a lot of my messages are censored).I will pop in  here more often,if only to read your contributions,but when the DLF (You'reAble) forum re-opens i will be back over there as quick as a shot.

I'm not sure where you get this idea that your post are censored  ???  

One swallow does not maketh a Summer.This message above you refer to has been allowed to stand however,several others,criticising the DWP/Govt. have NOT.These messages were not overtly aggressive in any way.I understand that this site has to cover its backs as to what is posted on here,hence their removing of my previous posts was not based on some warped ideology that offenders and reprobates (Govt. cabinet ministers in this case) are themselves the true victims of the piece.I presume it was more a case of moderating any criticism of the ruling Junta,lest action is taken by said body .Have a good day. :-) 

Bydand

mrsBB said:

it was never intended to be based on a diagnosis. Two individuals who have exactly the same condition recorded in their NHS/GP notes might be at entirely different ends of the 'functional scale', one might be able to work, dress and shower themselves, the other may not be able to do any of those everyday activities. At least this is what I have always taken from the PIP process etc. 

I agree that no two people are the same regardless that they may both have the same diagnosis.

But I think any review of PIP now or in the future is likely to include requiring a recorded diagnosis from either a GP or consultant looking after your care, because it is such an easy way of reducing the amount of people applying in one fell swoop….From that point then yes, fill in your application as normal, only with the added medical evidence to support the application.

If I was a minister intent on savings looking at PIP that would be the most obvious change, and it wouldn’t cost anything.

Not saying it’s right or wrong, but watch this space

Amaya_Ringo

I always thought a diagnosis was necessary. It was made to seem that way when I applied back in 2016 or 2017. But I do remember them telling me that my diagnosis was less important than how it impacted me. Right before ignoring all my evidence on that subject and forcing me to tribunal.

luvpink

Thank goodness that I have kept all of my medical evidence and diagnosis details from many years back because from what I have read it seems we will have to prove it to continue recieving benefits in the future.
In actual fact I was reassessed for esa last year and the assessor grilled me on my actual diagnosis and I told her that I had medical evidence with my claim.