Supporting Evidence

Boppy

Hi all! 

I'm not new to claiming PIP. I receive it myself, as does my son. We have both recently had our review form. I did mine and as suggested treated it like a new claim to provide as much information as possible. 

I am the appointee for my son and am doing his review now as well. He got DLA from age 7 (high rate care/mobility) and when he was 16 he was transferred to PIP getting enhanced daily living/mobility. 

I feel okay explaining where things have changed (mainly more difficulty in some areas due to new ADHD diagnosis but also planning/following journeys he's got better with). However, I feel quite stuck with providing supporting information. 

For his old DLA claim we used his ASD diagnosis report/letter and EHCP reports. For his transition to PIP we provided the same with more up to date EHCP reports. When he left college aged 18 we were told his EHCP ended and he would get no further support there. He's at university now and has occasionally been helped by the disability team there with extensions and his tutors are aware of his ASD/ADHD. 

However, he's not had any contact with healthcare professionals for his ASD since he was about 9 years old as funding was cut. He was diagnosed ADHD last year via a private company so I have that diagnosis letter and proof of his medication. The private company did very little in the way of follow up, mainly asking him to self report and as this showed some improvement they decided he was stable on meds. 

As we couldn't afford to keep paying private costs and his GP refused shared we asked his GP what would happen now as he'd struggle (this was all done by phone/text). Eventually, they agreed to refer him to our local ADHD team. He's been under them for a month now and they have explained they only provide medication and nothing else. 

So we don't have anything from a professional and I worry that it's not going to help his claim. I feel that he'd be entitled to enhanced daily and standard mobility but worry that we don't have anything to back this up. The ADHD diagnosis report focuses mainly on his past as a child and how he functions as university, it covers very little on daily living activities as they weren't brought up in any way. He was on his max dose of medication for a few months when they decided after a self assessment he was optimised and didn't need any further help. The issue is that he also struggles to remember to take his medication and his ability is reduced because of this but they didn't seem bothered about that. 

I guess my question is, what can we provide or ask for when it comes to supporting evidence? Has anyone ever got a report privately to assist? I wouldn't mind paying for one if it will help him. I could be worrying about nothing but if anyone has any words of wisdom I'd appreciate it! 

Boppy

Forgot to add, would arranging an appointment with his GP to explain his difficulties with daily living help? I've done the same in the past for myself and when my claim went to tribunal the only thing the GP provided was a letter that was worded like "she says she has problems with x, y, z" which was dismissed in the trial and I lost. 

poppy123456

Please do not pay for any letters. Letters from a GP are never the best evidence to send because they don't spend any time with you to know how you manage the PIP activities. If they know it's because you've told them and then it's "hearsay." Which is why the letter didn't help you for your Tribunal. 

You can just send what you already have, though they should already have copies of those if you send them in the past. The best evidence you can send for both of you will be your anecdotal evidence. A couple of real world examples of exactly what happened the last time you attempted each descriptor that applies to you. Adding detailed information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were. You should aim for at least half and A4 side of paper per descriptor that applies. 

This is exactly what I did for mine and my daughter's review in 2021 and we both had paper based assessments. 

Albus_Scope

Heya @Boppy and welcome to the community.

I can see Poppy has already rushed to your aid here, but I just wanted to drop in and say hello.  

Boppy

poppy123456 said:

Please do not pay for any letters. Letters from a GP are never the best evidence to send because they don't spend any time with you to know how you manage the PIP activities. If they know it's because you've told them and then it's "hearsay." Which is why the letter didn't help you for your Tribunal. 

You can just send what you already have, though they should already have copies of those if you send them in the past. The best evidence you can send for both of you will be your anecdotal evidence. A couple of real world examples of exactly what happened the last time you attempted each descriptor that applies to you. Adding detailed information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were. You should aim for at least half and A4 side of paper per descriptor that applies. 

This is exactly what I did for mine and my daughter's review in 2021 and we both had paper based assessments. 

Thank you so much. I agree with GPs he's not seen one for years lol! I appreciate the reply, I'll finish it off today and get it sent out recorded tomorrow. 

Boppy

Albus_Scope said:

Heya @Boppy and welcome to the community.

I can see Poppy has already rushed to your aid here, but I just wanted to drop in and say hello.  

Thank you for the warm welcome

onlymeagain

I had the same situation with my son. Had DLA since he was 3. Swapped to PIP at about 19/20. I had nothing except letters from when he was about 7. He went for a face to face despite me saying that he would not talk about himself negatively and would argue he could do things because he doesn't want to look like he is not capable. At the time he was of the firm belief that he was the most intelligent person on Earth and had a high IQ. He sat silent throughout the assessment only speaking when asked about exams and hobbies. He have made up grades for exams he didn't even take and when I tried to diplomatically correct him he got quite defensive. His hobbies are jigsaw puzzles and sudoku which he believes are signs of his high IQ.
He got no points, so I appealed. At MR he got extended on care and ability. I argued on how could he go from needing high care to nothing.
His review came along and I was dreading it. But they decided to extend his PIP at the same rate with no F2F. I was so relieved.
Anyway, my point is that it is possible to get PIP with old evidence. Some things such as ASD and ADHD won't just go away - they are lifelong and I think that is what is important to stress.

Boppy

onlymeagain said:

I had the same situation with my son. Had DLA since he was 3. Swapped to PIP at about 19/20. I had nothing except letters from when he was about 7. He went for a face to face despite me saying that he would not talk about himself negatively and would argue he could do things because he doesn't want to look like he is not capable. At the time he was of the firm belief that he was the most intelligent person on Earth and had a high IQ. He sat silent throughout the assessment only speaking when asked about exams and hobbies. He have made up grades for exams he didn't even take and when I tried to diplomatically correct him he got quite defensive. His hobbies are jigsaw puzzles and sudoku which he believes are signs of his high IQ.
He got no points, so I appealed. At MR he got extended on care and ability. I argued on how could he go from needing high care to nothing.
His review came along and I was dreading it. But they decided to extend his PIP at the same rate with no F2F. I was so relieved.
Anyway, my point is that it is possible to get PIP with old evidence. Some things such as ASD and ADHD won't just go away - they are lifelong and I think that is what is important to stress.

I feel you, my son can be like this as well. I know MRs have a very high success rate so if needed we will go down that route. It's great to see someone with the same issues have a good outcome! Thank you so much. 

poppy123456

Boppy said:

onlymeagain said:

I had the same situation with my son. Had DLA since he was 3. Swapped to PIP at about 19/20. I had nothing except letters from when he was about 7. He went for a face to face despite me saying that he would not talk about himself negatively and would argue he could do things because he doesn't want to look like he is not capable. At the time he was of the firm belief that he was the most intelligent person on Earth and had a high IQ. He sat silent throughout the assessment only speaking when asked about exams and hobbies. He have made up grades for exams he didn't even take and when I tried to diplomatically correct him he got quite defensive. His hobbies are jigsaw puzzles and sudoku which he believes are signs of his high IQ.
He got no points, so I appealed. At MR he got extended on care and ability. I argued on how could he go from needing high care to nothing.
His review came along and I was dreading it. But they decided to extend his PIP at the same rate with no F2F. I was so relieved.
Anyway, my point is that it is possible to get PIP with old evidence. Some things such as ASD and ADHD won't just go away - they are lifelong and I think that is what is important to stress.

I know MRs have a very high success rate so if needed we will go down that route. 

I'm afraid it's the opposite, they have a very low success rate at only about 23%. 

My daughter also has ASD, Learning disability and social anxiety. She wasn't diagnosed until she was 17/18 and before the diagnosis I started a PIP claim for her. At that time I didn't have any medical evidence at all because she hadn't really seen anyone. I had spent the previous 14 years fighting for answers but never got anywhere. 

Anyway, the form arrived, I was her appointee and did have help filling out the form at the time. My knowledge was much less at that time. As I didn't have any medical evidence, there was nothing to send with it. 

I asked for a home assessment at that time and they agreed. She sat in the room during the assessment and didn't say a word. At the end he did ask her a couple of questions about maths, simple adding and taking away, she sat there working it out on her fingers. She just doesn't understand maths in any way, shape or form, including counting her own money. 

About 7 weeks later a decision made to award her Enhanced for both parts but with a very short award. Early 2019 was time for her first review. She had the diagnosis of all conditions by that point so I did send everything I had, assessment reports for learning disability and ASD, as well a couple of other reports. Award remained the same with a paper based decision. 

Review yet again in 2021 I didn't send the report in that time because my printer wasn't working and couldn't get them printed as it was during the pandemic. I did give plenty of real world examples. I sent the forms back but within less than 2 weeks a decision letter popped through the letter box. It was impossible for them to have received the form and make a decision in such a short space of time. A decision was made on the evidence they already had. This time her award was for 6 years. 

The moral of this story is, medical evidence isn't really needed for a successful PIP award. despite some people thinking it is needed. 

Boppy

Sorry, yes I meant appeal tribunals have a high success rate not MRs. I'm ND and have brain fog so get mixed up! 

I'm glad you got a quick decision for your daughter  

Boppy

Okay 7 pages, over 3000 words, plus diagnosis letters all sent off today. He's asking his tutor to write something as well regarding a couple of the descriptors so if that's good we'll send that in too. 

Thanks to all for the assistance. ^_^ 

JonnycJonny

On the point of medical / clinical evidence I am inclined to disagree with Poppy. I would say it will be become increasingly necessary to provide solid supporting documentation for any claim especially for mental health cases which have grown almost exponentially in the past few years. Personal statements / diaries won't pass muster with DWP decision makers in future - they simply don't substantiate a claim.

We are well aware of the difficulty of getting such evidence from a health professional who knows you well enough to judge your likely impairment/s in  areas such as toileting, dressing, preparing meals or getting out and about but that's the sad reality we all face with the current state of the NHS & the nature of the welfare benefit itself .

Whoever wins the next election, I feel  anecdotal evidence as proof will be largely consigned to the past when it comes to disability benefit claims.

Best wishes 

Boppy

JonnycJonny said:

On the point of medical / clinical evidence I am inclined to disagree with Poppy. I would say it will be become increasingly necessary to provide solid supporting documentation for any claim especially for mental health cases which have grown almost exponentially in the past few years. Personal statements / diaries won't pass muster with DWP decision makers in future - they simply don't substantiate a claim.

We are well aware of the difficulty of getting such evidence from a health professional who knows you well enough to judge your likely impairment/s in  areas such as toileting, dressing, preparing meals or getting out and about but that's the sad reality we all face with the current state of the NHS & the nature of the welfare benefit itself .

Whoever wins the next election, I feel  anecdotal evidence as proof will be largely consigned to the past when it comes to disability benefit claims.

Best wishes 

This has usually been the experience a lot of people I know claiming PIP have had although they tend to get it overturned at appeal stage (myself excluded). I agree that anecdotal evidence will be pushed out more and more, especially when you've seen the way the PM talks about disabled people, making us out to be scroungers. I'll see how it goes and hopefully the lovely ADHD team can help with something along with my son's tutors. 

I had a similar experience today, contacting my local authority for a needs assessment because I struggle to get in/out of the bath. The woman I spoke to was vile, instantly talked over me saying "you won't just be given grant money you know!" when I'd not mentioned anything of the sort. I don't want money just some help...she was awful and laughed at me when I said I bought my wheelchair saying "Ha! Well, it won't count haha!". I ended up in tears but found the strength from somewhere to ring the main office and complain. Tbh I'm just tired of it all now.  

poppy123456

JonnycJonny said:

On the point of medical / clinical evidence I am inclined to disagree with Poppy. I would say it will be become increasingly necessary to provide solid supporting documentation for any claim especially for mental health cases which have grown almost exponentially in the past few years. Personal statements / diaries won't pass muster with DWP decision makers in future - they simply don't substantiate a claim.

We are well aware of the difficulty of getting such evidence from a health professional who knows you well enough to judge your likely impairment/s in  areas such as toileting, dressing, preparing meals or getting out and about but that's the sad reality we all face with the current state of the NHS & the nature of the welfare benefit itself .

Whoever wins the next election, I feel  anecdotal evidence as proof will be largely consigned to the past when it comes to disability benefit claims.

Best wishes 

I'm speaking for the here and now, not what may happen in the future. How it stands now, medical evidence isn't needed for a successful PIP claim. 

JonnycJonny

Again I am inclined to disagree. In order for an application to be assessed properly then appropriate professional evidence IS needed. 

In the absence of proof, the applicant will be at pains to convince the assessor of their disability. 

You would not pass a driving test by simply telling the instructor 'I know how to drive'.

I would say to all applicants the more objective the evidence you can provide the better - be it now or in the future. 

Best wishes 

poppy123456

There’s many people that successfully claim PIP without any medical evidence. My daughter was one of them back in 2017. 

JonnycJonny

My point is that there will be no solid basis on which to argue your case if called in for a face to face assessment.Your daughter was one of the very few to get a successful paper based assessment in the absence of  medical evidence - I feel that sets up an unrealistic expectations for those looking for a similar result.

I will rest my case here and wish all those making an application in the absence of professional evidence the best of luck.

Best wishes 

poppy123456

She didn’t have a paper based assessment when I first claimed for her in 2017. She had a home assessment. 

There’s been many members here that have been awarded without medical evidence. 

Of course we are all entitled to our opinions so will leave to there now. 

JonnycJonny

Sorry for the inaccuracy in my post - a home assessment would be even rarer. A lot less burden of proof to be seen in the actual home environment - hope she's doing well.

Keep up the excellent advisory service you provide here.

Best wishes 

 

poppy123456

Home assessments were possible back in 2017 but not anymore. She only spoke to answer a couple of maths questions at the end. 

She’s not doing well at the moment sadly. Thanks for asking and thanks for the kind words. 

griff11

If your son at uni or going yo uni apply for Disabled Student Award.  They do an assessment & the report was very thorough for my daughter on what support she needed and why.  I used it as evidence for her first PIP claim and sent it again for second one.