WCA question.

JammyWhite

Hello everyone.
Can you be found LCW if it is deemed you can work but limited in hours?

Does fit to work mean you are expected to be in full time work and if it does then LCW means you are expected to work but limited hours due to health issues?

Because everywhere I read it says if found LCW then you are not expected to do any work and only the activities to prepare for work.

So when the time comes for my WCA can I be found LCW if my medical evidence, doctors etc say I can work max 10-15 hours per week?

Bit confused about this.

poppy123456

Yes LCW means you don’t have to look for work but prepare to work sometime in the future by attending work focused interviews.

Just because doctors have said you could work those amount of hours it doesn’t mean you will be found fit for work or even LCW.

JammyWhite

So it is either you are fit for full time work or you are not expected to work at all?

There is no option for LCW to be what it literally means? That is, you have ‘limited’ capability for work. Instead of ‘zero’ capability for work? What if, like many disabled people , you clearly can do ‘some’ work, but not full time work? What’s the outcome at WCA in this common situation?

Thank you for answering on a Sunday by the way! :)

poppy123456

LCW means exactly that, limited capability for work.

Your thoughts are wrong here. People do work and claim either LCW or LCWRA. Neither of them mean you can’t work at all.

I wouldn’t say the situation you’re referring to is common. What makes you think it is?

There’s no stats for that so I can’t answer that question.

JammyWhite

I understand that if found LCW you are still allowed to work.

What I am trying to understand is if you can be found LCW on the basis of having limited, but not non-existent, capability to work?

I assumed it must be common because many disabilities still can allow for some type of work even if very brief and work from home etc?

Even if it isn’t common, it still seems unclear to me that yoj can be found LCW - meaning you are deemed to be able to do some work but in a limited manner/hours?

JammyWhite

or are you only found LCW If they deem you can’t work at all?

But then that would be LCWRA

JammyWhite

So by definition, LCW must mean they deem that you can do ‘some’ work, not none at all.

and yet being found LCW means you don’t have to do any work but only work preparation activities.

There is a discrepancy here, or am I missing something?

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/894622#Comment_894622

That makes no sense. Even if found to have LCWRA that doesn't mean you can't work at all.

Are you currently going through a review, which is why you're asking these questions?

JammyWhite

No my WCA hasn’t been booked yet.

I’m just trying to understand why the outcome from a WCA seems to be you are either fit for (full time) work or none at all because whether you are LCW or LCWRA you are not expected to work at all.

Maybe the way I’m asking is wrong or confusing but to my mind it seems that the outcome of a WCA can’t be that the claimant can work albeit limited hours? Because LCW means they don’t expect you to work ‘any’ hours?

If I am not making sense please tell which part I have got wrong? Or feel free to ignore me at this point :)

poppy123456

LCW means you're not fit for work but you have to prepare to work sometime in the future and attend work focused interviews but what is expected of your exactly will depend on your claimant commiments.

LCWRA means You're not fit for work or work related activity (which is was the "WRA" stands for)

It's really as simple as that.

JammyWhite

IF, as you say. LCW means you are not fit to work, how then can they find you LCW if you are already working albeit limited hours? Is it because it’s based on the pints system so regardless of work, the answers and pints decide it? That would explain it.

Does ‘Fit to work’ apply even to those who can only work limited hours due to disability? Because that would be true Limited Capability to Work (ie limited hours)

JammyWhite

I meant points not pints.

poppy123456

Each group is based on descriptors. You need at least 15 points for LCW. For LCWRA you just need to meet at least one of the descriptors.

As I advised, limited capability for work doesn't mean you CAN'T work at all. Same as LCWRA. It means your health condition make it difficult for you to work.

WhatThe

JW,

LCW and LCWRA were introduced with ESA nearly 16 years ago through the Work Capability Assessment (WCA) so this is not new.

The first national reassessment programme of Incapacity Benefit recipients took place between 2011 and 2014 using this criteria so there is plenty of analysis and information available.

JammyWhite

Thanks Poppy I think that’s the bit that was tripping me up. That it’s based on the descriptors and not strictly on one’s true ability to work.

As per Gov website, LCW means you are not ‘expected’ to work not that you are ‘not fit’ to work (at all).

That wording makes sense.

JammyWhite

sorry one more question.

Can you be LCW and gainfully self employed?

poppy123456

No, you can't.

JammyWhite

thanks Whatthe. We posted at the same time and I missed your reply.

WhatThe

ESA used to mean Employment AND Support Allowance (employment allowance + support allowance)

It is now mostly referred to as Employment Support Allowance (employment-support allowance) and I believe this is the direction of travel.

The switch from Incapacity Benefits to ESA was calamitous and these tests to determine fitness-for-work as unreliable as ever they were.

JammyWhite

I note the nuance in the wording as indeed in the official wording used in Gov publications.

To me, there remains some ambiguity and conflict between the definitions and the outcomes and the actual true state of things.

For instance following a WCA the claimant commitment should be drawn up based on its actual findings. But if one is found ‘fit to work’ (but in a limited way or limited hours), then it falls on the claimant to convince the work coach that the CC should be tailored/limited?

JammyWhite

I am aware being completely new in this process there may me some detail that I am not bearing in mind which would explain my questions.

For instance are there notes that are forwarded to the WC following the WCA decision? To the effect of “ whilst the claimant did not score enough to be found LCW, he/she does have limitations that should be considered in drawing up a CC”?