PIP for Bi-Polar Disorder (Mental Health)

Steve1987

Hi all,

Apologies, I know this subject has been done to death, but I am posting here to document my PIP journey and hopefully this will come in handy for someone else in the future - regardless of my personal outcome (yet to be ascertained!).

I am diagnosed with Bi-Polar; specifically Type Two. I experience mainly severe and enduring depressive episodes with the occasional hypo-manic phase. I got formally diagnosed in Oct 2022, although I have been accessing mental health services since my teenage years (I am late 30s now).

I work full time in the public sector. Which, I must say, has not done me any favours as this has somehow been used as leverage for me being able to 'function', but hey ho. We move on.

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Steve1987

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/120759/pip-for-bi-polar-disorder-mental-health

**I accidentally clicked return on my laptop and the post got published. Apologies for that!**

I applied for PIP back in February. Following the usual process. However, I did formally request that I had access to an electronic version of the application form to complete as I struggle to hand-write but can type til the cows come home (as you can probably tell already). This never happened and subsequently I assumed my claim would be closed as I missed the 30 day period to return the form - despite me asking several times for an electronic document (I take it they don't exist, even though they said they would sort if for me).

To my surprise, my case wasn't closed and in June I received a letter to say I would be undergoing a video assessment. Happy days! or so I thought. The assessors technology failed and we had to do it over telephone. She was quite rude and dismissive of my mental health, or at least that is how I was made to feel. We went back and forth on quite a few areas of my life and at one point I felt forced to explain how me staying in bed for extended periods of time, not seeing to my personal care and not leaving the house WAS NOT A CHOICE (!!!).

I told her that when unwell, I struggle to interact with others. She said that she can't see how this can be accurate because I have maintained a romantic relationship, a parental role and a job. My issue with that, is that she doesn't see the collateral damage that come with this….. me pushing people away, walking out of jobs on a impulse, distancing myself from family/friends, having panic attacks in public places, I could go on.

I didn't feel like she covered all of the PIP descriptors, so when the call was done (I luckily ensured it was recorded), I wrote quite a lengthy letter outlining a) my annoyance with the assessor and b) how I would have scored myself against the descriptors. I sent this off to the Wolverhampton office along with my most recent appointment letters as some extra 'evidence' - because obviously, those of us with an enduring condition need to evidence every aspect of our lives!

To my annoyance, I received another letter stating I would be re-assessed because the last 'assessment' was not adequate. By annoyance, I mean frustration. I knew it wasn't good enough. I tried to get it dealt with over email by sending the letter (my version of the descriptors) in the body of an email to Capita basically saying that this is what I will be responding with at the planned assessment but to no avail, I had to be re-assessed.

This latest assessment took place yesterday. I ensured again that it was recorded. The lady was polite, she actually introduced herself and told me about her training and background - that was reassuring for me.

The assessment lasted about an hour, as opposed to the first one which was about 25mins. I felt that she covered the majority of the PIP descriptors and she seemed to have an assessment approach that nicely intertwined amongst them. She didn't challenge me on anything I said and actually, it felt that she was encouraging me to open up. She also apologised for my 'journey' so far with PIP and stated she would do her best to submit the report by the end of the day (she didn't by the way……..but hey ho!).

For reference, I have scored myself as meeting Enhanced Daily Living and Standard Mobility.

I have very little confidence that I will be awarded at the initial stage, I know I have stated that the recent assessor was lovely, but I am also aware that she would have seen I have complained and I asked for it to be recorded, again. I am also aware of the recent political stance against the so called ''depressed and anxious'' that is all over the media!! So, I want to be ready for the MR - can anyone recommend the best way to approach this?

I was thinking about breaking down the PIP descriptors again but this time giving recent, real life scenarios as evidence for each domain.

Is there anything else that I could do to help with the MR, as I am aware it has a very low success rate and often leads to Tribunal…..

Jimm_Alumni

Hey @Steve1987, PIP certainly is… a journey, and not a fun one for many. Your first assessment really sounds like a bad one, I've not heard of one being so combative before. I don't know what other words to use but it sounds like it was combative. Your second assessment description sounds more like what I've experienced before.

It sounds like you've already written a very good MR letter, the previous letter you sent sounds like it would fit the bill. Though you would unfortunately have to send it again, stating you are asking for a mandatory reconsideration.

Steve1987

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/894869#Comment_894869

Thank you!

If nothing, I’ve got a great template that I can work with.

The whole PIP process is very stressful isn’t it?

Rachel_Scope

Morning @Steve1987.

Yes the PIP process is incredibly stressful, I had to go tribunal for mine but was awarded it in the end thankfully. We're here to support you along the way 😊

Steve1987

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/895069#Comment_895069

Thank you Rachel.

Capita have confirmed that my report shall be sent to DWP by close of play tomorrow.

So, me being the impatient and anxious soul that I am - will be requesting a copy from the DWP ASAP so that I can ‘analyse’ it and prepare my response in readiness for them denying my claim.

It helps that I’m a qualified Social Worker and have a ‘knack’ for assessment writing / scrutiny. Also helps that like I said, I have the recording of the assessment.

Rachel_Scope

Ooh that's definitely a bonus to be a Social Worker. I would be the same as you requesting a copy from them and preparing myself. It's a sensible thing to do, however, don't let yourself get too bogged down into thinking it'll go to appeal 😊

Steve1987

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/895164#Comment_895164

I can’t help it. I get hyper-focused on things and this is my current interest haha.

I’m hoping that I can be of some help to anyone on the forum (within reason of course) if they have any adult social care related issues. Mental health, learning disability and general older adults is my socialism.

Steve1987

UPDATE: I’ve had the text to say they’ve received my report from Capita so I will be requesting a copy of this today.

Steve1987

UPDATE: I called the DWP and was told by the call handler that they can’t send the report out until they’ve made a decision.

So I asked to speak to a manager……

The manager kindly informed me that it was a miscommunication and that they would send me the report ASAP.

So, don’t be surprised if the same happens to you. Know your rights and stick by them!

Steve1987

UPDATE: I have received a copy of my Capita assessment report. That was fast! I only asked for it yesterday, very impressed!

I am pleasantly surprised by the report; although I would argue some information has been omitted. So I am preparing myself to challenge it if I am not awarded.

According to the recommendations within the report, I should get:

Daily Living: 13 points (enhanced)

Mobility: 10 points (standard)

We shall see!

Rosie_Scope

Fingers crossed for a positive result @Steve1987! Keep us posted 😊

MyHappy256

Thanks for sharing and best of luck with your PIP, I would just check that you mentioned your medication, I am post transplant and my medication alone wipes me out, let alone all my other disabilities, worth checking that you mentioned it.

I think you probably know my next door neighbour, G, he speaks highly of you.

As for PIP, I found the assessments extremely stressful and combatitive, really helped me the third time that CAB were able to assist me with my PIP, at that point I was terminally ill and qualified under special rules.

My second time the interview took longer than an hour and the assessor chose to shortcut her report by copying the wording of someone else with a different condition, the result I ended up with a medley of two reports, scored nil points and even when I took it to tribunal proving that they had my information and condition wrong, they were more interested in breaking for lunch than actually fixing it.

Steve1987

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/895786#Comment_895786

Thank you. Medication was definitely mentioned, some things weren’t but I don’t want to poke the flames too much…..yet!

I’m intrigued as to who ‘G’ could be? Especially if he speaks highly of me haha!

Steve1987

UPDATE: I have been sent a link to complete the 'how your disability form affects you' form online.

I asked for this when I made the claim in February 2024. Baring in mind, I have already been assessed by Capita……twice.

Steve1987

UPDATE: Online portal completed and GP summary uploaded as evidence.

Can't believe I have completed the form AFTER already being assessed by Capita TWICE.

Also, having read the Capita assessment again, although I am happy with the majority of the scoring, I am not sure I would accept it as a case manager - it is very copy and paste and doesn't really go into detail. Are they usually like this?

I have made sure that the form I just completed online is FULL of information.

Steve1987

This isn't an update, more an observation.

I have found this PIP process to be extremely anxiety provoking. Part of my condition means I can sometimes invest myself into something to the point that it becomes unhealthy and I stop thinking about other things all together.

It has bought up some really negative thoughts and it isn't often you have to look at yourself so deeply - this makes you realise the negatives associated with your day to day life. It isn't pleasant.

When I first read the report from Capita I felt somewhat liberated and validated because the assessor has acknowledged that I need help in a lot of areas in my life (not as many as I think she should have covered but I will address that if needed).

Just thought I would share that. I really do hope the 'powers that be' at the DWP and Capita appreciate the level of stress this process puts on people.

MyHappy256

I found the PIP process incredibly negative and stressful, filling in the forms I was forced to reflect on all the negative things that I had dealt with and then chosen to not dwell on because they just made me depressed (bearing in mind my conditions are primarily physical, but if you dwell on the impact of all these physical things it can really bring you down), then submitting the forms on time, felt like struggling to complete my homework at the last minute on the weekend just before going back to school, at that point you realise how stressful it has been filling in those forms, it's such a relief to get that burden off your chest, only to realise, you then have to wait for the assessment. In my first two assessments I had to go by taxi to a place that was 1h45 minutes away from me, at somewhere completely out of the way, that lacked facilities, wasn't on time and did not allow recording or accompanyment.

Thankfully that has now changed to some extent, by my third assessment it was done under special rules.

In my case, the reports generated by ATOS were wildly inaccurate and consistently left out important key details, they lied or deliberately misinterpreted information or results.

So I would not accept anything CAPITA got wrong and get a third party to assist you in confronting it and getting it corrected.

For me I applied for PIP on three separate occassions, twice by myself, which was a big mistake, I should have gone through CABS, I scored myself with the help of CABS, but I did not get CABS to sit with me and fill in the forms.

The third time I applied, I found the same overwhelming stress, but fortunately my Godmother supported me and together we got through to CABS and he then went through the questions and then together with my Godmother I documented and evidenced everything, she took notes and he took notes, it was then typed up and I checked everything, fortunately at this stage I qualified under special rules my GP filled in think it is the SR1 form, you have to be terminal within 6 months and if as in my case you have a transplant, then if you survive longer than 3 years you have to go for re-assessment.

By the time I applied for the third time, I had to be supported because I could no longer walk, I struggled to think and articulate responses, I was heavily medicated and confused, it was embarassing detailing the negatives in front of my Godmother who was very supportive and sad as I explained the problems I had gone through, those things that you hid from other people, you have to be open and confront them, it is sometimes humiliating, the form as in much of the whole benefit process is dehumanising. Fortunately with the help of my Godmother and the CABS representative they were able to document everything with the help of myself and the supporting documentation.

In my second PIP application, I took it to mandatory review, the review did not even take into account what I was saying, it just supported the assessor without even considering or explaining why, so it was more a step in the process before then choosing to go through this long winded process to take it to tribunal, and while some people had a good experience with Tribunal, and Tribunal at one stage had a very good reputation for overturning stupid decisions, that was not my experience with them at all.

When I went through Tribunal I found they grilled me on everything and tried to trip me up on everything, they started with lines like we accept ATOS is wrong, so you think no need to discuss this and then when you did not contradict all of ATOS rubbish because they had already said they accepted ATOS was wrong and you had documented how ATOS was wrong in your 44 page letter which highlighted all the different things that ATOS got wrong, they then turned around and started quoting ATOS as if their reports were Gospel, accurate, despite the fact that they were completely inaccurate, subjective and the opinions of an unqualified assessor with an agenda to refute all the medical evidence.

I mention this because many people go through this same process, don't think you are alone in this, and if they say they agree that ATOS/CAPITA were wrong, spell it out, and don't think that they will read your 44 page letter.

On the tribunal panel there is the head of the panel, I think he was an attorney, there was a disabled representative, who was incredibly hostile and instead of being supportive, kept trying to trip me up and catch me out and there was a GP who clearly thought he knew more than all the GPs, specialists and medical tests etc.

The head of the panel just wanted to break for lunch as soon as possible and then they would review all the documentation by themselves, considering in my second assessment it was a medley of someone who had endocrine disease and me who had liver failure, it should have been glaringly obvious that the assessor was wrong, but I still scored nil point.

I have a big problem with these third party contractors such as ATOS, Capita, Maximus etc. it is like the DWP is hiding behind them and using them to do their dirty work for them, they save face and political reputation by getting these third party organisations to deny people benefits they are justly entitled to.

The previous govt. brought in these organisations and kept harping about benefit cheats, without quoting accurate statistics, so they would not mention that total fraud was less than 1% at one stage, yet paint all claimants as being scroungers and cheats, they would identify isolated cases and then report these in the press to reflect on all claimants and it would turn people's opinion against disabled people.

The govt. is looking for savings, why do we need third party contractors to do the job of the DWP? There is a duplication of duties, the DWP are responsible for doing the assessments, but the third party contractors do the assessments at the behest of the DWP and get paid bonuses.

I just cannot thank CAB enough for their help in helping me to articulate, describe and relay information to fill in the form, without them guiding me through the process and the support of my Godmother and the CAB case worker, I don't think I would have managed.

Steve1987

UPDATE: As I mentioned earlier, I am somewhat hyper-focused at the moment so have just spent a couple of hours finding evidence to submit. I have a supporting letter from my partner, a court report that outlines historical diagnoses, GP summary that outlines current diagnoses and a couple of appointment letters so they have contact details if needed.

I just want people to know that I am documenting this journey because I can guarantee there are other people out there who have mental health issues and are going through the same or are thinking about applying. This forum is at the top of the list in Google searches.

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/895909#Comment_895909

I'm rather confused why you filled out that form and returned it when you've already had your assessment and received a copy of the report. I would have personally rang PIP to ask why you received that form when you've already had your assessment, rather than just fill it in and return it.

Did you fill out the PIP2 form when you first applied?

chiarieds

Hi @Steve1987 - like myself you also had 2 assessments, as the first wasn't of an adequate quality. I appreciate that you had asked to be able to submit your claim online as you struggle to handwrite, but, for future reference, you can type your answers out & either keep the font small enough to then paste these onto the form, or simply attach them at the end of the 'How does your disability affect you form' (the PIP2) so long as you reference which descriptor you're describing, & put your name & National Insurance number on each such additional page(s).

However now I'm also puzzled as to why you've just filled out an online form rather than questioning it, as you should rather just be awaiting your decision letter. I hope you ring to sort this out.

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