I'll health retirement - civil service employer - 2 ques
- I cannot work in a 'pressure' job ever again, but might do part time or simple. Scheme retirement age is months rather than years away. Would any restriction 'expire' after scheme age?
- Would a compensation claim for workplace stress be dealt with automatically as part of IHR (part of the cause of IHR), or should I start one separately.?
Comments
-
Good morning @d1944 and a warm welcome to the community.
This isn't my area of expertise and we're not allowed to give legal advice, but I can recommend you speak with Acas. I've found them really helpful in the past with employment issues and they should be able to help with your queries. Best of luck with it all and please let us know how you get on.
0 -
Hi,
Not really sure what your asking with regards question 1 , so maybe be a bit more specific if you can
Ref question 2….IHR is solely to do with you believing that a medical condition or health related illness prevents you from working, either in your current role or work at all in any capacity…..It is not an easy thing to get and the onus is on you to fully provide the evidence to the pension provider whilst fully meeting the very strict criteria they apply….being ill is not enough.
Any claim for workplace stress would need to be raised completely separately to any IHR application.
0 -
Thanks Ryland.
More specific on q1 - some people do IHR several years before the scheme pension age e,g, 60 or 65 or same as state pension age. In this case it is less than a year to state/ scheme.scheme.e pension age, which is the same in this case. Hope that's a little clearer.
0 -
IHR is not something people really do at any given time or age and is not what anyone should be willingly looking for.
IHR is an option that is open to employees who are long term sick or have a condition or illness that prevents them from working…..this is usually on the back of several years of poor health, lengthy sick abscences, OH referrals, back to work plans and having exhausted all workplace reasonable adjustments ( and yes, the pension provider would look for all of the above to meet their criteria)
In my case as an employee of the civil service, my poor health started to manifest itself in 2015 and being diagnosed with a progressive disease ,gradually got worse and worse to the point where I was barely able to cope with both work and my home life. I had many lengthy sick periods and the times I wasn’t sick I was taking leave days to cover for the days I felt particularly rotten……from 2015 to when I retired on IHR (2024) I probably had 15 OH referrals, as many back to work plans and all sorts of reasonable adjustments put in place……sadly these weren’t enough to keep me at work and I applied for IHR which I was successfully awarded.
I can say hand on heart that I pushed myself way over the time when I should have called it a day at work and still hate the fact that I had to retire at the age of 54 having worked both in the military (from the age of 16 as a junior soldier) and in the civil service (prison service) for the last 25 years.
Most employees who have reached the point where they apply for IHR have done so because they physically cannot be at work, it is not a choice for them but a brutal, worrying reality.
I am not sure if the above applies to your situation or not, how old you are or whether both your employer and OH have suggested IHR as a possible solution to any continuing health problem ( both your employer and OH have to agree and accept that you meet the criteria for IHR before you are allowed to apply)
0 -
I was medically retired from civil service in 2009 - based on my "classic" pension - I was offered an enhanced pension at age 47 when I had 30 years service under my belt…. I had relocated and changed jobs several times, but was unable to continue at work at the time. That was extremely hard to achieve and is even harder to get nowadays !
You do not/cannot APPLY for IHR from CS - You are told that is what is happening !
- Do you have medical evidence and support from your GP/ Hospital ?
- Are you in a Trades Union ?
1 -
thanks Byland and Wibbles. In the current procedure. Employee or employer can initiate where warranted. Yes, I believe sufficient evidence, physical/mental. Yes, currently a TU member. I am not worried about the process, I am asking about after the normal scheme retirement age - surely you are just retired, not IH retired then?
0 -
Sorry - I don't understand what you are asking - "after normal SCHEME retirement age" - you are still working at beyond 65 and want IHR ?
0 -
Hi,
Yes an employee can ask to apply for IHR but this isn't usually a decision they would take on their own, it is likely that you will have had OH involvement and both they and your employer agrees that IHR is a viable option for you to proceed with.
An employer cannot make an IHR application on your behalf, neither can they force you to take IHR.
It would be expected that if you are applying for IHR then you will likely be signed of work as basically you are stating to your employer you can no longer work….and if they move you to another dept etc meantime then your application would likely fail as being at work, albeit in another role or dept shows you can work.
Regards retirement….I suggest that if you haven't already you sign up for the civil service pension portal which has all the information you need.
You need to make yourself aware of the pension scheme IHR descriptors and criteria.
If you retire at normal retirement age then you are classed as having retired
If you retire before your pension age then you are classed as having been medically retired.
if you are medically retired then reach retirement age, you are still classed as having been medically retired.
They are two completely different things but in the end you are still retired.
Can I ask why you are asking?
If you get an award of the lower tier then you can apply for other jobs
if you get an award of the higher tier then you are likely under strict criteria for future work
by retiring through IHR you are just receiving your pension earlier than you otherwise would. you don't get an IHR pension then a retirement age pension
Have a look at the link, hopefully helpful
0 -
I should also have said that if you apply for IHR and are unsuccessful (which does happen frequently)then it is likely your employer would look at letting you go, as by applying for IHR in the first place you are effectively stating to your employer that you are not fit to work. being unsuccessful doesn't men you are all of a sudden fit for work.
seems simple enough but you would be surprised how many people aren't aware of this.
It is very unlikely that you an employer from a health and safety viewpoint would not be able to keep you on after an unsuccessful application.
0 -
Thanks for the various points. Appreciated.
0 -
There's nothing to stop you applying for other jobs - no matter what tier IHR you get - Apart from with your own department !
1 -
Many thanks
0 -
Hi
Not quite true.
When you retired in 2009 under classic the rules were very different from what they are now and indeed allowed you to work even on the highest tier award.
Currently the rules that apply for civil service IHR and awards are
There are two levels (tiers) of pension depending on the severity of your illness and the effect of this on your ability to work.
The criteria for lower tier ill-health retirement is that you must be prevented by ill health from doing your own or a comparable job but are likely to be able to work in some employment in the future.
To get upper tier ill-health retirement pension you must meet the same criteria as for the lower tier except that you must also be unlikely to work in any capacity in the future…..as defined by the pension policy you must be incapable of undertaking gainful employment. That’s not to say that you cannot work but this would be expected to be in an extremely limited capacity…..If found to be breaching these rules you risk very severe sanctions up to and including losing your top tier award status.
0 -
Mine was enhanced, (I had worked for 29 years and received 40 years worth of payments), retrospective and preserved in that I applied for IHR - 12 month after I left on redundancy terms !
Yes I was extremely lucky…. I worked for another 10 years after obtaining highest rate IHR and then took IHR from that job (again highest level)
It says "prevents them from discharging their own job and of undertaking any other gainful employment."
It doesn't say that you are not allowed to……………..
What happens if you need to work for financial reasons ?
They cannot prevent anyone from working if the option is being below the breadline !
0 -
Especially if you are going a totally different job and it was the original job that made you ill enough to need IHR in the first place
0 -
Hi
I would say that your case is not the norm but is likely to have been acceptable within the scope of your pension policy in 2009,I would state that you have been very lucky to have received redundancy and two IHR awards, but it is not the same today and we need to be very clear about that. Most of the pension rules and criteria have been tightened up significantly in favour of the pension provider and employer over the years and employees need to be fully aware of the definitions and very specific rules and criteria even before applying.
I have never said that you aren’t allowed too work, but having recently gone through the IHR process 2023/2024 I am confident that I know what I’m talking about having made it a priority to know my pension scheme and the IHR process inside out so there were no hidden surprises. I can only attest to what the rules are around the classic/ Alpha pension.
If you are awarded lower tier then yes the expectation is that you can work again whether part time or indeed full time. Just not in the current role you are struggling with.
If you are awarded higher tier then there are very specific restrictions on what work you are allowed within the terms and meaning in law of “gainful employment” and having done my research on this and contacted various depts and organisations to fully clarify things for myself I assure you that these restrictions directly made mention of in the pension policy allow for very limited scope for work of any substantial length or duration….a word that was used by many of the depts I contacted was ….it would be expected that any work on the back of having been awarded higher tier pension would be negligible.
Your question in relation to…what happens if you need to work for financial reasons is really irrelevant if awarded the higher tier only.
You are only awarded the higher tier award if the chief medical Officer decides that on the basis of all work and evidenced medical information that it is in their opinion that your condition or illness is in all likelihood going to prevent you from working again up to your pensionable age. To get the higher tier award now is really an acknowledgment that you are so ill that you cannot reasonably work in any capacity. Generally a higher tier pension is fairly generous and especially so if you are young and a fair way of your normal retirement age.
Not many people are aware of this but final authorisation for a higher tier award to be made can only be passed by a parliamentary board, the employer and pension provider who adjudicate on this.It is likely that if awarded higher tier award you would also meet the criteria for the HMRC severe ill health test.
Which is why it is so hard to be awarded higher tier, the medical evidence you provide has to show that you indeed suffer from a condition severe enough that working again is all but ruled out.
Folks can argue until they are blue in the face about how right or wrong this is or seems, but the pension policies are all very clear what they expect….if you are found to be breaking those rules surrounding any pension then you can face very severe sanctions.
It was also pointed out to me in no uncertain terms that unless you are paid in cash for work done, HMRC have processes in place that would flag up irregularities against already known IHR pension awards.
1 -
What is the HMRC Severe ill health test ?
Does it apply to Civil Service Pensions or just NHS pensions ?
I tried to read HMRC pensions tax manual (https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/pensions-tax-manual/ptm051200) and fell asleep straight away
Does it financially benefit myself / anyone else ?
Actually - I have been IHR'd 4 times in total
1. 1996 - Civil Service - forcibly MR'd - appealed and reinstated
2. 2009 - A private company - after TUPE failed
3. 2009 - Civil Service - voluntary
4. 2020 Local Authority
and yes they all knew about my previous
0 -
What are the qualifying conditions for an ill health pension?
There are two conditions:
• you must have at least 2 years qualifying service;
• the pension scheme’s Medical Adviser must be satisfied that you meet the criteria for an ill health pension.
What are the criteria for an ill health pension?
There are two levels (tiers) of pension depending on the severity of your illness and the effect of this on your ability to work.
To qualify for lower tier ill health retirement, your ill health must prevent you from doing your own or comparable job and the ill health is likely to continue until you reach scheme pension age.
To qualify for upper tier ill health retirement, you must meet the same criteria as for the lower tier except that you must also be incapable of doing just about any type of job. You may be
capable of doing some jobs but these are unlikely to be comparable with the one you are leaving.
• ‘Prevented by ill health’ means having a significant incapacity. It does not mean ‘unwilling’, ‘disinclined’ or ‘inconvenient’ to carry out your job.
• ‘Ill health’ means a recognised medical condition giving rise to the incapacity. Diagnosis must be supported by clinical findings.
• ‘Doing your own or a comparable job’ (lower tier) means turning up regularly to do a job in your grade (not necessarily the exact job that you have been doing).
• ‘Doing any type of job’ (upper tier) means not only being unable to do a job in your grade, but also any other significant job.
We call this being incapable of undertaking ‘gainful’ employment.
• ‘Likely’ means on a balance of probabilities.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 14.3K Start here and say hello!
- 6.9K Coffee lounge
- 71 Games den
- 1.6K People power
- 105 Community noticeboard
- 22.2K Talk about life
- 5.1K Everyday life
- 70 Current affairs
- 2.3K Families and carers
- 829 Education and skills
- 1.8K Work
- 447 Money and bills
- 3.4K Housing and independent living
- 905 Transport and travel
- 661 Relationships
- 65 Sex and intimacy
- 1.4K Mental health and wellbeing
- 2.3K Talk about your impairment
- 846 Rare, invisible, and undiagnosed conditions
- 894 Neurological impairments and pain
- 2K Cerebral Palsy Network
- 1.2K Autism and neurodiversity
- 36K Talk about your benefits
- 5.6K Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
- 18.6K PIP, DLA, ADP and AA
- 6.7K Universal Credit (UC)
- 5.1K Benefits and income