Interesting snippets from the Labour conference
Comments
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Finally some honesty from this party, it took long enough to come out.
"Keir Starmer has said he believes that people claiming long-term sickness benefits should be expected to look for work."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y8g5z67lzo
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It was in a Benefits and Work email I received today but having just re-read it it was saying we will have to see if Starmer also includes these Tory ideas. I misunderstood this (Tired and like most, worrying) So hopefully not.
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here’s the ifs report link published a few days ago if anyone wants a read
It’s a throughly interesting piece which partly explains why we are where we are and mentions many options the gov have tackling the increase in disability/sickness based welfare
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I have always felt the harshest way to apply cuts is to change eligibility, a simple cut would be more fair and less cruel.
Why? Because if you change eligibility, you get people who currently have support moving to no support at all, to them its not a cut, its a yank the safety net from beneath them. That is far worse than making a payment cut to every recipient whilst not changing eligibility.
Kind of ironic to call a think tank that wants to remove kindness, and safety nets as social justice.
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Yeah PIP fraud is very low as I expect the majority of fraud is means tested related. People pretending to live alone, not declaring change of circumstances, that sort of thing.
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on that one the media is re spinning old stories from months back
Timms himself said there were proposals from the pip consultation that were universally panned - I’d bet money that was one of them
the major worry is pip going means tested as that wasn’t covered in the consultationBut as I said that would be counterproductive if labours aim is to get more disabled into work (and potentially coming off esa/uc/hb as a result)
It’s especially bad for working people who have fallen in love with a disabled person and is married/living with them (as a couples income and savings is added together to calculate means tested benefits entitlement for a couple such as uc)
And in terms of pensioners, the state pension counts as income so any over 67? In receipt of a pip award could be caught out if it becomes means tested (utter stupidity if Labour go after pensioners again)
how many of you would be more likely to explore work if pip was means tested - can’t imagine it would be many (making disabled poorer and unable to save money will get disabled questioning if work is the financially the best option for them - and that’s before considering possible health implications)0 -
Means testing pip is probably the least bad thing they can do, I can see that happening given they doing it to the WFA, however I dont think that will be the only change to PIP, I expect descriptor changes and a return to the old DLA evil of over emphasis on clinical evidence.
I have already been exploring work options for years, sadly its an impossibility based on whats available. Its all physical low skilled stuff, like fast food, supermarkets, that sort of thing.
The best thing to get at least some people into work is make jobs in the NHS, police etc. that are working from home, flexible hours, its such a no brainer, but sadly governments always seem to lack common sense.0 -
God don't like the part that says can be done immediately or am I reading that part wrong
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Honestly if I could work I'd get a job tomorrow having mental health problems and dealing with the DWP is torturous even Jeremy hunt last budget spoke of changing WCA said people who can work should work and said something along the lines of not everyone can that would be cruel I remember that also worrying could labour push through changes quick
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means tested is probably the best case if you live by yourself and intend to stay on uc (& hb) either by not working or taking advantage of the tapered uc work arrangement (which for those who have done the maths and figured out how many hrs they’d have to work at minimum wage to maintain their welfare awards after ni/tax/discounts in other areas from being a claimant such as free prescriptions - for many disabled work makes no financial sense………..staying on welfare is a no brainer if work badly affects your health also)
those of us who just want to be done with uc and job centre requirements and see the right job with the right support as an acceptable trade off given time the fact that uc isn’t means tested is a huge attractionFor many working disabled it allows them to work part time and being able to have savings over £6k without having to report yourself to the dwp & send in regular bank statements is huge to self worth and independence (hence personal independence payment)
(Plus the other stuff I mentioned previous post about having a partner)
Labour wants to create wealth and you are only able to do that if you are able to be a saver (and do things like get on the property ladder which needs more than a £6k-16k deposit!)
Cuts and freezes would obviously affect those who can’t see or don’t want to see a route off welfare (and obviously those who’s health/disability makes work a non option)tightening criteria is a unpredictable one and would come to how the dwp go about it
Those disabled without a support system falling down the cracks is a worry of mine (and the true benefit fraudsters always seems to know how to side step the cracks)
The pip consultation of making a pip award more based on specialist/official diagnosis is interesting as it would certainly catch out many of the scammers (much harder to fake a diagnosis then fake dwp paperwork or phone assessment) - and I’m personally all for optional disability id cards if they simplify and secure a pip award of some type
The flip side is that you can’t get a specialist diagnosis if your sole disability is depression and/or anxiety which is hugely wide ranging in severity (and yes, can be faked easily as difficult to prove 100%) - unless you’ve been committed into hospital or under the mental health act
point is Labour are making pretty clear that sickness elements of esa/uc and pip have more claimants than the country can financially handle (another reason to side eye brexit) and Labour need to boot ppl off the welfare shipQuestion is will they ask politely who would be willing to try and swim, go for those least likely to fight back or after those that on paper look like they have a fighting chance (that a really bad boat analogy- sorry)
there is no good option for Labour on this but some are fairer than others and some downright inhumane0 -
and that’s the million dollar point
Labour and the dwp have many things that they have to fix before asking the disabled to try anything - and that will take a couple of years at least (longer to mend all the smears and stereotypes mp’s have poisoned public minds with the past few years)
disabled are only the scapegoats, not the actual cause of the problems (mirrors would be needed for that)1 -
That wes guy talking now about getting sick back into work so now thier be banging on about this till 7th October and people like yh get them back to work all over again
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So had a thought take away lwcra and make pip means tested so everyone would have to work are they allowed to do that just my thoughts
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As said in another discussion, the media have very carefully left out three very important words from their quotes. They've not said they'll be making everyone get back to work, they've said "Those that can work, should work if they can" They're wanting to support people back to work, not force people who cant into work, as that would be amazingly silly of them and would end up costing businesses and the country more money. Plus the fact the ministers have already visited Scope a few times recently gives me some hope.
So again, I'd try not to worry too much right now.😊
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Yeah I received that email today.
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I really hope they don't means test it as I will be well and truly stuffed and I think it would be discrimatory and grossly unfair if they do
I was dismissed from my job twelve years ago and there is no possible chance I could ever work again not even in a voluntary role.
I am too physically disabled and I will be destitute if they means test it
😓
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Means testing PIP would be okay as long as they accept disabled people have extra costs so raise the maximum income allowed above the figure they use for other means tested benefits.
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Means testing pip is most definitely not the "least bad thing they can do".
It will leave those of us affected destitute.
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The green paper proposed by the previous Tory government did not mention means testing PIP. Instead, the key proposals in the green paper focused on three main areas. First, tightening eligibility criteria to concentrate support on individuals with the greatest needs. Second, potentially requiring formal medical diagnoses for claims. Third, exploring alternative forms of support such as one off grants or vouchers instead of regular cash payments.
At this point, any speculation about future changes to PIP is premature. The Starmer government is still in the process of reviewing the consultation responses from the green paper. They are formulating their own approach, which could differ significantly from the Tory proposals. Nothing will be clear until the Labour makes a formal announcement regarding PIP reforms.
While Labour has recently announced plans related to benefit fraud investigation, these do not directly relate to PIP reforms. The overall approach to PIP reform under the Labour remains unclear, and we will have to wait for their official announcement to understand any potential changes.
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I posted this in the other thread but I’ll post here to
But I typed up the transcript (as near as word for word as I could - but excuse my grammar) of the bbc radio 4 interview that was the source of starmer quotes that media posted online articles about:
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