So is this it, Starmer has said it?
This is very disturbing if he has actually said this although i know there is bad journalism so am unsure what to think?. Seems he's doing away with sickness benefit altogether as those on LT Sickness benefits mostly are people that have struggled all their lives not a broken arm. I know people say wait until the 30th of October but this is either true or not..
I'm so worried because there will be blood on his hands if it goes ahead.. He seems to think if you have anxiety and depression a job will lift yer spirits. I'll show him my scars if he wants to see.. They should be looking after the British people who have illnesses. I don't know what to think. 😓
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Yep, they finally came out with it, was obvious for over a year, but was so many denying it.
The evidence was overwhelming.
Appointment of Liz Kendall a red Tory who has the mindset its up to the individual to better themselves.
Liz Kendall's tweets.
Liz Kendall ghosting everyone asking how she will protect the vulnerable, constituents, organisations and other individuals on social media.
Couple of winters ago her predecessor, stated he thinks LCWRA is too soft on work obligations.
Reeve already decided she wants to change the WCA to toughen it prior to the election.So we also already know they will do it the cruellest way possible, change eligibility. for anyone in doubt its in their manifesto. They also are going to devolve employment support to councils, a great way to cause confusion with post code lotteries and to remove themselves of blame for anything nasty that will happen.
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I don't think it's as dramatic as the headline suggests. It's not a major policy announcement or anything.
Following the speech, he was asked in an interview with the Today programme if he agreed with the proposition that virtually no-one should claim benefits without trying to get back to work.
"The basic proposition that you should look for work is right," he replied.
"People need to look for work, but they also need support.
"That's why I've gone out to look at schemes where businesses are supporting people back into work from long-term sickness.Tory politicians frequently expressed similar attitudes during the previous regime.
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They may have done, but this is the prime minister, and the chancellor the second most powerful person has already said she is changing the WCA.
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If a person is legitimately disabled and requires support, "need to look for work" is not really applicable when the barriers to entry are palpable. Let's say worse case scenario, all of us with a need of support are "forced" to job seek, that will not go well at all. When a prospective employer understands our challenges, the likelihood of employment will be slim to non-existent.
These are buzz words for the press, as they are painting a vision of a bright future under Labour, so they want to be seen to be saying the right things at this time before the budget. I am also worried of course, but from past history, when the furniture is moved around (politically speaking) it all settles down again into a familiar pattern after a while, as the cost of living isn't suddenly going to drop and the need to supply the basics to the disabled will remain. If they were to impoverish us to the degree that people across forums I frequent are fearing, then the system would start to implode, as the pressure on local health services would be immense.
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It's bad journalism from the BBC, they missed the crucial 3 words of the end of that statement which was "...if they can"
The Guardian reports it as said, with that caveat.
Very poor from the BBC.
Still scary, but it leaves room for hope.
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thanks for that it makes sense so much still there's some evil people out there just wanting to lower numbers whatever cost but if people simply can't do things asked of them it can't bode well. @Meg24 yes i agree i'll have a look at that.. The damage that scaremongering does if they knew ffs
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I believe this is the full interview starmer gave
I don’t have a spare half hour right now but I’ll have a listen and pinpoint where he starts talking about welfare (does anyone know a good transcript app) - let’s hear it from the horses mouth
(Unless someone else fancies doing it??)0 -
haha i would offer but i am that slow typing and seeing gb would be taken back by the sea
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I just listened and at around 5:38, Starmer does indeed say people should get back to the workplace "where they can". The BBC conveniently left that last part out but Independent and Guardian did include the caveat.
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😂
I’ll attempt to transcribe some point tonight
Haven’t listened to the whole thing but the part we are interested in starts at about 4min30secs (haven’t listened to the whole thing and I do want to read a transcript so I’ll need to listen several times - but in first listen starmer didn’t exclude any group from his ‘push to work’ train of thought - I did get the impression that the interviewer was ‘boo, benefit claimants’ so that didn’t help……………so I’d like to hear starmer in a interview with a disabled (or disability ally) journalist and see if he responds any differently)
But no I’m not getting much positivity (in terms of understanding and realisation that not everyone can jump those hoops - but thats my personal interpretation after one listen……ask me again tomorrow)
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In the Guardian article they also report him saying things like getting people into work "*from long term sickness" and on people's worries that they won't get a job offer "*after being long term sick"
On the face of it/taken literally that would suggest he is *not talking about making the currently still sick go out to work, but of strengthening measures to help people return to work easier *after being sick.
That's what I'm choosing to hear at the moment.
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@apple85 The Today interview from this morning is also on Apple podcasts, which has a transcript available. Anyway I can tell you the part about welfare is quite early on in the interview
I believe this is the full interview starmer gave
I don’t have a spare half hour right now but I’ll have a listen and pinpoint where he starts talking about welfare (does anyone know a good transcript app) - let’s hear it from the horses mouth
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I’ve had a chance to listen and transcribe now (I think I got it 99+% correct - feel free to listen and double check) and excuse my grammar (full stops, commas, etc…….), not one of my skills but I tried to make it flow!
BBC radio 4 - the today show with nick robinson was the direct source of this interview (and where the likes of the guardian took their quotes for their article)
(I’ve kept in the question about immigration as it does somewhat affect the uk disabled - both tories and labour want as many jobs as possible to be filled with uk nationals rather than from overseas, especially if training for said jobs can happen on uk shores - it sounds like all 16-24 year olds not in education or work already may be expected to sign up for an apprenticeship or other training schemes unless they have good reason not to - but that’s my impression)
Reading the transcript -
it’s obvious the interviewer doesn’t have a good impression of benefit claimants and buys into the scrounger stereotype
Reading starmers words (and you are better off listening to the interview for this as I couldn’t 100% tell if these were questions starmer himself was asking, or if he was guessing the questions those long term out of work claimants would be asking themselves) - if you read between the lines there the slimmest implication that starmer releases not all welfare claimants will be able to do everything he’s mentioned.
However by no means is it clear and starmer certainly didn’t clarify who’d he’d class as unable to undertake things and who’d be exempt (starmer didn’t really answer the question on whether he was as hardline on benefits and those to sick to work as his adviser Paul gregg)
That’s my 2 cents
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I agree with your thoughts pip being main health passport fazing out WCA which I never had problem was indefinite on that so new claimants from 2025 2026 for wca tightening criteria then come round to rest and by 2028 pip become main health benefit hope My writing makes sense also think will be more for learning disabilities and physical disabilities less for MH
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Link to thisReportDWP Adelphi Freedom-of-Information-Request, Department for Work and Pensions2 May 2012Our Ref: VTR 1548Dear Mr Newman,Professor Paul Gregg is widely attributed with being the architect
behind the current WCA modeland process whilst retained by the
Government as an expert adviser.1) Between which dates were his services retained in this capacity?2) Is he still retained in any capacity whatsoever?
a. If yes, where can his role/job description be found
b. If no, why, given the improvements are needed ongoing?3) Please provide a copy of the termination letter, redacted if
necessary to avoid data protection issues.It is important to understand, that although Professor Paul Gregg led an
independent review which looked into conditionality and support, he was
not involved in developing the Work Capability Assessment (WCA).In December 2008 Professor Gregg delivered an independent report to the
Department for Work and Pensions, entitled 'Realising potential: A
vision for personalised conditionality and support'The report sets out Professor Gregg's vision for a single personalised
conditionality and support regime, where virtually everyone claiming
benefits and not in work should be looking for or engaging in activity
to help them move towards employment.Q 1) Paul Gregg's services were retained between 4 August 2008 and 31
October 2008.Q 2) Paul Gregg is not retained by the Department of Work and Pensions
in any capacity.a) N/Ab) Unlike the Personal Capability Test, it is important the WCA is
subject to an ongoing process of review, evaluation and refinement. As
part of this, we have a statutory commitment to independently review the
WCA annually for the first five years of its operation, put in place by
the Welfare Reform Act (date?)Professor Malcolm Harrington, a highly respected Occupational Physician,
has now carried out two independent reviews of the WCA.Both of Professor Harrington's reviews and the Government responses can
be viewed athttp://www.dwp.gov.uk/policy/welfare-ref...
ndependent-review/We will continue to review and refine the WCA to ensure that it is more
effective; fairer for all claimants and as a result fairer for the
taxpayer. We are committed to three further independent annual reviews,
of which, Professor Harrington has agreed to take forward the next of
these. As part of this programme of work, he will continue to monitor
the impact of the changes which have been introduced.Q 3) Following a search of our paper and electronic records, I have
established that the information you requested is not held in this form
by this Department. However, I can confirm that Professor Gregg was paid
for 32 days work over a 12 week period commencing on 4 August 2008.If you have any queries about this letter please contact me quoting the
reference number above.Yours sincerely,DWP Central FoI Team1 -
Also when tories was talking of scraping WCA was a lady called Ellen clifford was granted to take DWP to judicial court over changes to WCA so don't know if that would still happen if labour went ahead also whats happening with investigation ECHR of DWP
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I’m not in the right frame of mind to fully respond to this post
I honestly can’t tell if your intent was to genuinely reassure or to actively scare other but the above post didn’t ’put my head at ease’ - quite the opposite
If I read between the lines the same higher power is in control of both the Tory party and Labour Party and both are following the same master plan set in motion a few years back - that sounds very conspiracy theory (even though we know donors have ‘power’ - surely their interest would be getting tax cut, not booting disabled off welfare?)
I hope your very black and white prediction of where sickness/disability is heading toward ends up being well off the line as this would be a borderline ‘callous’ standpoint for the gov to land at imo
To suggest there are only 2 options for disabled ppl (full uc/pip award and left alone - or find work & no longer qualify for any benefit help) is narrow minded and if implemented as you suggest will cause untold damage to many vulnerable sick and disabled people if they fail on the wrong side of an assessment
PIP is both an in work and an out of work benefit and it should remain that way (or a version is incorporated into uc for those out of work (which is means tested like the rest of uc) and we have a (non means tested) version of pip which is dedicated for those with a disability, health condition or illness who are working and need extra financial help in order to continue working and cover the extra expenses of having a disability like what scope has publicised stuff on the past few days
Also starmer has made clear the past few days that he wants more disabled to be working - making it more difficult to get a pip award when working (or no longer qualifying for a pip award if you do work) would have the opposite effect on that ‘labour mission’ - prehaps starmer and co are that ‘stupid’ (it’s happened before when pip was brought in to replace dla to save money) but I hope one of the disability charities gets through to them (even if in my mind that’s an unrealistic hope)
Lastly I don’t know if this post was directly aimed at me or those worrying in general but personally found it a troubling read and I don’t know if you implied myself or another member was trolling others - but it wouldn’t surprise me if you intent was to ‘trigger’ someone
congrats if that was your intent (all I can really say without swearing)
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The additional "if they can " or whatever the exact wording was dsnt comfort me as who decides if they can? We already have bs battles with pip claiming we can do stuff we cant and still not awarding pip or the extra points when specialists , drs etc prove you can't as they can ignore it and deem what they want...
They will have someone u qualified for your specific disability decide you can work...
This is what I feel right now as I have to fight for everything because they do not understand my disability
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