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IR-ESA Support group to UC and needing to talk/see someone?

Chaoticmess

So I just got my ESA to UC migration letter.

I’m in the income related ESA support group and have pip.

What I understand and have read so far it seems like because I’m in the IR-ESA support group when I apply for UC I will get put into its equivalent support group which is the Limited Capability for Work-Related Activity (LCWRA) group?

Assuming this is true what I need to know is what happens in terms of assessments and needing to talk or go see someone?

I don’t go out or interact with people. This is one of the main reasons why I’m in the support group to begin with.

What I need to know is if this migration will expect me to do this at some point. Getting put into the LCWRA group I think stops having what I think of as a ‘proper’ assessment again but I’m stressing and concerned as I’ve been reading things that suggest I might still need to go see someone or talk to someone on the phone at least once if only to verify identity and agree to report any changes.

Is this the case and what happens if I can’t do that?

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Comments

poppy123456

Yes you will be entitled to the LCWRA element from the start of your claim. You won’t need to provide fit notes or have another assessment.

It will take a few weeks for ESA to send your details across to UC. Once this is done your claim will be updated and you will need to agree to your new claimant commitments. Which will be to agree to report all changes.

You will likely need to attend an appointment when you first claim. If you can’t attend in person you can ask for a telephone appointment. After this appointment hopefully ESA will send your details across so you won’t need to attend any further appointments.

If you claim online and have access to a journal everything is done through there so you won’t need to speak to anyone else after the first appointment.

Chaoticmess

Thanks for the reply.

Good to know I won’t need to do fit notes or have another full assessment, thanks for confirming that.

In regards to what else you said. But what if I can’t deal with interacting with people either on the phone or though whatever this journal is?

Interacting with others is the problem, be it in person, phone, text etc, not just physically going to see them.

Is it possible to have something like an appointed person to do it for me or get a doctor to write a letter to avoid needing to interact with anyone in any way and avoiding it?

Apologies if I misunderstood what you meant but you said ‘if’ I claim online. This implies there is another way to claim? If so, how would this be done?

poppy123456

Another way to claim would be through telephone to the UC helpline. If you apply this way then you would not have access to a journal. This would potentially be worse for you. Once your claim is up and running there would be very little, (if any) contact at all and you will pretty much be left alone. For this reason having access to a journal maybe the better option. With telephone claims if they want you for any reason they would either email or text you asking you to contact them.

If your ID can't be verified online they can do a home visit but this may delay your claim. We have another member that is also unable to use the phone or speak to anyone in person. I'll tag them for you and maybe they can tell you how they managed to claim UC last year when they migrated across.

@OverlyAnxious I was wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing your experience here please. I remember how difficult it was for you when you migrated last year.

Kimi87

You can have an appointee yes if there is someone that would do it for you

https://www.gov.uk/become-appointee-for-someone-claiming-benefits

OverlyAnxious

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/972030#Comment_972030

I have one relative who was able to take my ID to the Job Centre for verification. They were initially refused in person, but the Job Centre did eventually allow it a few weeks later, with the caveat that they had to provide a picture of myself with my photo ID as well.

I genuinely don't know how I'd have done it without another person. The Job Centre didn't want to be flexible, just repeating the same 3 options (in person visit, telephone call or home visit), all three have been impossible for me for years now. They also suggested making that relative my appointee but I didn't want or need that.

I can use an online journal so chose to do my claim that way. I was allowed to accept claimant commitments through the journal. And although I did initially have several messages in the journal (largely caused by the ID delay and overpayments) I haven't had a single message from them in the past 3 months. I just check it once a month now and assume I'll get an email notification if there are any messages in the meantime.

I do appreciate that not everyone has a trusted friend or relative, and not everyone can manage an online journal. I also hope the Job Centre(s) have become a bit more flexible since the ESA migration properly started, as there must have been others in similar situations.

poppy123456

@OverlyAnxious thank you for responding. I remember the difficulty you had when you first claimed but couldn't remember how you actually got around the ID and first appointment part.

Chaoticmess

Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s somewhat encouraging to know this was possible.

Everything I’ve read so far suggests I need two forms of photo identification. I only have 1 though. It seems like this was the case for you as well and they accepted 1 ID plus a photo?

After going through more things about all this the journal looks good in some respect and bad in others.

I don’t use a mobile and rarely check emails unless I know I’m waiting for something specific. Having letters through the post was ideal as they were non-intrusive but got my attention when they arrived and didn’t need me to have some sort of constant check in to see if I’ve been contacted.

My worry is using a journal will require a constant check in to make sure they haven’t tried to communicate something important to me and then 3 months later payments are reduced or stops because I didn’t know something needed to be done.

If I use a journal can I still insist on any important communication be done via post?

Or worst case scenario can I add two mobile numbers / email address to the journal system to be notified? Mine and someone else’s who does check there phone/email every day?

Or can I just simply add an email and mobile number that isn’t mine or does everything need to be mine otherwise it would make doing the identity verification thing harder?

I also don’t like the idea of having a system ‘they’re’ in control of. The distrust I have of them is that if I were to check one week to see if there were any messages and see none then have a problem occur and try to explain “well you never said...” only for them to add in a back dated message they should have given me before hand and I can’t prove otherwise.

With post I have physical copies of the letters proving things. I don’t like the idea of giving that up.

As to appointing someone I didn’t realise it at first but this was something we already looked into and isn’t what I need. It seems like that is something bordering on power of attorney. I just wanted someone to be able to handle communication for me, nothing else.

poppy123456

If you apply online you will have access to a journal and then you will not receive any letters in the post because it will be a digital claim only.

To receive letters in the post you will need to ring the helpline to start your claim and then there will be no journal access. In my opinion this could be worse for you because if they want to speak to you they would either text or email you to ask you to contact them.

When you have a journal, UC and yourself will both be in control and not just them. Once your claim is up and running there should be very little contact.

I'm my daughter's appointee and the last contact from them on her journal was 7th April 2024 and that was only because I needed to report the annual changes to her housing costs for social housing. The last time that a message was actually typed by a person was July 2021.

Yes, you can add someone else's email or phone number but ideally you will need to tell them that it's someone else's contact details. Usually what they would do is when there's a message on your journal they would either send a text or email. I receive an email when there's a message on the journal and I think I choose that option when I started her claim. I didn't choose the text option.

An appointee is nothing like Power Of Attorney. Having an appointee would mean they would be responsible for your benefits claims only. They would need to report all changes, be responsible for filling out all forms, as well as having your money paid into their bank account.

OverlyAnxious

When I did my ID, I had to provide 3 forms of non-photo ID because I did not have 2 forms of photo ID. My single photo ID was only used within a photo of myself because I couldn't attend in person. It was not considered acceptable ID on it's own.

However, the .Gov site seems to suggest that only one form of photo ID is necessary for Job Centre visits now, plus one form of address ID and one form of other ID. So it appears that the requirements may have changed since I did mine.

If you send someone else to confirm your ID, I would still expect them to need some sort of photographic evidence of yourself in addition to the standard ID.

Regarding mobile numbers, we need to receive a code via text to access the journal, so that could be awkward if you only put someone else's mobile number in. How often (or not) do you check your phone for texts? I am not expecting any journal message that needs to be dealt with in less than a week. I don't check emails every day either, often they can go for a week without being checked.

I hate getting letters, I find those more intrusive. I have control over when I open my email inbox. I don't have any control over seeing letters in my post box. They can often sit by the door for several days before I'm able to open them as well.

chazbaz

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/972030#Comment_972030

Hi waiting for my son to get migration letter he doesnt talk on a phone or doesn't go out I'm his appointee could I deal with this for him ? Would appreciate contact with ppl on here who experienced the same thing

Kimi87

Yes as his appointee you can make the application and manage the claim for him.

Chaoticmess

Ok so,

First thanks for the additional replies. I needed to take some time to go away and not think about this for a little while.

We’ve now filled in the form and gone through everything to make a claim. Things seemed to be going ok until what seemed like getting near the end when the verify identity part came along.

At first it was offering options to use a P60 and Driving licence which I have.

But then the further we went into it the driving licence remained an option but the P60 never came back.

We then got led down into selecting a credit reference option thinking they would want a phone or water bill etc. But this didn't happen and instead they started asking us about a hire purchase which we couldn’t do so clicked the ‘I don’t have that information option’. This led to us being told they couldn’t identify my information.

Thinking that maybe we made a mistake and somehow ticked the wrong box previously that gave us the hire purchase page we went back and through the process again only to get the hire purchase page again as well.

Not seeing any other option we then clicked the ‘Confirm your identity another way’ thinking we might need to do what was said above about someone else going to the job center on my behalf but once we clicked the continue button we got a ‘We will call you’ page and couldn’t go back or undo it.

Now I’m stressing because I don’t want them to phone me. I want you use a P60 and driving licence to verify my ID online like they said at the start!

What should we do?

We’ve already tried putting a note in my journal, two notes actually. The first one is one we planned to make anyway after making the claim letting them know about my complex needs and that I can’t go out to see someone or talk over the phone so all communication would need to be done in writing.

The second one is to try and address the ID screw-up and let them know what’s happened and not to phone me while asking how we can complete my ID check online.

This is distressing me so much now as my fear is that because they use a 3rd party company to do the ID check it doesn’t matter what we put in the journal as an automated system has now sent off my details to the company and they are the ones who will ring me to verify my ID and if we say no I can’t do it over the phone the clam will be rejected or something.

Is there anything else we can do and what should we do if they do ring?

poppy123456

Many people are unable to verify their identity online. When this happens it’s standard procedure that someone from UC, likely a work coach will contact you to arrange an appointment. It’s not a 3rd party.

They will do a home visit if you’re unable to have a telephone appointment, would this be possible for you?

If not do you have someone that can take ID into your local job centre on your behalf? I see that overlyAnxious also had exactly the same problems, please have another read of their comment above.

WhatThe

Hi Chaoticmess, most of us find UC stressful to understand and you are not alone with Scope.

The first page says Select all items you have. You will need at least 2 items from this list to verify your identity online.

Chaoticmess

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/983946#Comment_983946

Thanks for the reply. Good to know it’s at least going to be someone from UC. A home visit is better than needing to go to them or talk on the phone but still not an option I would want to explore. I would much prefer to do what overlyAnxious had done for them and send someone to the job center on my behalf.

But I was expecting this to be arranged in the journal first, letting them know someone else would be helping me to verify my ID and them agreeing to it. Now thanks to everything being very confusing and not providing the options they initially gave as options later on I’m due to be called by someone.

From what I can tell after having reread what they said overlyAnxious doesn’t specify how they went about communicating with UC that their relative was allowed to go to the job center on their behalf before they actually went.

Is to imply I can just send my own relative to the job center on my behalf with a photo of me and photo ID like overlyAnxious did while ignoring the impending call and get it all dealt with, phone call for ID check as well as the ID check itself, by someone there instead, separate to any other sort of communication happening?

If not, what I need to know is what do about the impending phone call and ideally stopping it from happening.

Will the person who gets scheduled to ring me look at my note in the journal first, not ring me and then proceeded to communicate in the journal to verify my ID?

If they do ring anyway can someone else tell them I can’t talk over the phone and need the conversation to be done via the journal or does this put my claim at risk for ‘refusing’ the call?

Can someone else just explain my situation if the UC call and arrange for the job center visit by that person (without being an appointee) and without me being involved at all? My fear is they would still insist on speaking to me anyway to make sure that person is speaking for me for security reasons. At which point it becomes a catch 22.

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/983962#Comment_983962

Hey, thanks for the supportive words.

I think I get what you're saying but to me I read that to mean if I only have a P60 and driving license then that will be enough to meet the minimum requirements. Otherwise why say something like 'at least' in the first place? It should read something like: You will need at least two of the following ID options plus other additional forms of ID we're not going to tell you about till you're half way through filling out this form.

The hire purchase thing also just came out of nowhere and prevented us from continuing to use some other form of ID, be it 2, 3 or 4 of them. It was just suddenly there with no way to get around it to select something else like everyone must have hired something in their life at some point and it’s a given. That's where it became highly confusing to me which resulted in the phone call being unwittingly initiated instead.

Kimi87

That Journal To-Do is one I had when I claimed. No unscheduled call and the message is still sitting there almost 3 years later.

An appointment will be added to your Journal if they need to speak to you.

Chaoticmess

Thank for the reply. So you’re saying the to-do for them to call to verify ID isn’t something to worry about and if they need me to verify my ID still they will let me know in the journal and, for example, give me an appointment to verify ID at the job center like has previously been talked about which would then let me negotiate sending my relative down to deal with it like has already been done above?

Kimi87

Yes you will have notification about an appointment via your Journal.

Chaoticmess

Ok, great. I really hope this is the case. Thanks, for letting me know this. I might just be able to get some sleep tonight now. Will still lie awake for a fair few hours first but hopefully it will reduce the time it otherwise would have taken before exhaustion overrides my mind that won’t switch off thanks to it getting stimulated by fear and stress.

OverlyAnxious

Hi,

Mine was all done through journal messages. I can't use phones at all so even if they did call me then I couldn't have answered it. I live alone so there's no-one else to answer either.

I was initially told my relative could go in the journal…then they were refused when they arrived at the JC (wasting their time & fuel etc) then it took another few weeks of journal messages to get them to allow it again.

Hopefully the process will be easier for you but do keep us updated. 🙂

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