Universal Credit Review
I have review this Thursday and I am an appointee for my brother who has slight learning difficulties and I support him in daily living and managing his finances. I uploaded the 4 months statements for the current account that we have in joint names and also his regular savings account in his name. I have a few questions about what they will ask re the statements. The income is UC and PIP and my brother works with cash and as back up a credit card. We take about £400 out bank each month which he uses throughout the month, going out, taxis, books, papers, eating out etc sometimes clothes, presents, general exps, whatever is needed and this never amounts to anymore than an accumulation of about £300 to £400 in what would be classed as cash savings. I order his main food shopping each week on line and it gets delivered to him and I have a Standing Order to my account set up for £260 each month to cover what we have worked out it costs each month as its my online tesco account with my credit card used to pay and I also pick up other food he needs as required. I also have standing orders set up for his cleaner that I pay, his mobile phone, his amazon prime monthly payment. We also have a family caravan in me and my husbands name that we take my brother to most weekends and he has his own bedroom and bathroom in it from March to Dec each year so we split the fees, heating, insurance and stable groceries for the caravan 3 ways and we each pay £160 per month to cover and this is set up as a Standing Order to my account. Will there be any issues with the way I work the finances at the review with the monies being transferred to my account. I am now wondering if I should be perhaps using his card for the tesco shopping so that it is more transparent so I could do that going forward and also change the direct debit on phone and his amazon prime account to his bank account instead of mine. l was also unaware that I had to notify UC if I took my brother on holiday and we have been on holiday for a week at start of Oct, a week at end of Nov and a week in January and there are transactions on the statements that day e.g £150 transferred to my account for Euros narrative Euros Nov Tenerife and £100 Morroco activities. A lot of the time, we pay to take him on holiday as this ensures that he isn't left without support and it also gets him away. I'm wondering if I will get into bother for not indicating that my brother was out of the country as I didn't realise and as I see the rules say notify work coach but he has Lcwra so doesn't have one. Very concerned about the review as I have read some worrying posts. Any advice would be welcome.
Comments
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You only have to inform UC if the holiday is over 28 days. As he has no work commitments they won't be interested in anything shorter.
You have written clearly about his expenditure, if they ask you about any of them just repeat what you have written here.
Have a read through of this thread which has some experiences.
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What will they ask me about being an appointee. My brother still understands and just needs help with his finances. Each month we have a discussion about his finances and transactions and what needs to be transferred to me and as I said I detail this on the description on any money that is transferred to my account. If I was asked I would be able to show receipts for his main Tesco shopping and mobile phone and amazon prime but looking at the statements I've submitted not for other incidentals so don't have detailed records and in terms of cash that is withdrawn each month that he uses as he pleases, we just keep in an envelope and he comes and gets it as he needs to for hair cuts, buying books etc, cafes and gen exps but I don't have receipts. I just keep a watching brief on the totalat end of each month. Will this be a problem. Getting anxious about the review and mind doing overload hoping I'm not doing anything wrong.
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As his appointee you will be in charge of the appointment and answering any questions they have during the interview.
They might question some transactions, just explain what they were for, you don't need to account for every penny spent with receipts etc.
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You will just need to take it as it comes but these reviews are to find hidden capital - not to grill you over spending decisions you make as an appointee.
For future though - and especially as your brother seems to have some capacity, it might be wise to have a separate back account in joint names of you and your brother so all his income and expenditure is kept clear from yours.
I am am appointee for my adult son. We have a joint bank account, my son and I. Into that account go only my son's benefits and everything that goes out of that account is my son's spends.
The problem we had at review was lack of spending. Too much capital and a stop on the claim. But having all the spends clear does make it much easier.
Is there any reason why your brother could not use a cash card instead of cash?
It makes things much clearer. You can still get non contactless cards from the bank if you ask. That is what my son has. I personally feel that vulnerable people are much safer with a card. They are less likely to be mugged for their cash and if the card is lost, you can freeze it in the app.
Even small spends can be by card now. All my son's spends were by card which should make our current pickle easier!
Best of luck for Thursday!
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Are you sure about this as I'm reading that I should have full records of everything spent and I'm extremely worried. I've done nothing wrong but reading what an appointee should do is worrying me. Myself and the whole family support my brother and we ensure he has really nice clothes and is always dressed appropriately and looked after well. He can spend his money on what he wants we dont deny him anything. We even take him on holiday and a lot of the time we pay. All his money is spent on him but to prove that I wouldn't have detailed records at all. He is my brother and I wouldn't do anything at all that wasn't in his best interests. He can use his cc in shops and I go to the cashing with him each month for the cash he withdraws. I'm now really anxious that I'm not doing what I should in terms of keeping records and that I will be questioned at this review this week for not being able to show receipts if asked. I so wish this was over.
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I have a joint bank account with my brother that only his benefit money goes into and his direct debit come off. The money that is transferred to me each month is mostly set up as a Standing orders e.g what I have worked out for food each month tesco delivery and other food throughout the month. I think after this review I will register my brothers card on his tesco shopping and that will show the tesco being debited from his account each week. I just hope I can get through this review and I can make things much more transparent. Do you think they will ask me how I manage his finances with him?
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They definitely won't.
I am in Scotland and we have a guardianship for our son. We had to apply to the courts to get it. There are 2 kinds of guardianship in Scotland.
- A welfare guardianship which is what we have. We can make decisions about where our son lives, who he sees and other powers to keep him safe.
-A financial guardianship. Also granted by the courts.
This is a very onorous guardianship where every
penny is accounted for, written down and accounts
inspected.
In England I think Lasting Power of Attourney is the equivalent. Where the person lacks capacity to hand over their own rights to another person.
If all you have is DWP appointee, the courts are not involved or interested. Of course if there was some sort of complaint from your brother or someone else to DWP that you were stealing his money, you could become the subject of a Police investigation.
I really do not think in this review they will ask about how you manage his money unless they suspect you are squirrelling away his benefit money in a secret account. (and that would not be calling into question your ability to be an appointee - it literally is finding money and getting it back)
It is only agents doing these reviews and they've only been in their jobs about 6 months. DWP really do not have the time or resources to scrutinise every spend on your brother's account.
This is what these reviews are about - finding hidden capital. They are looking for undeclared accounts, money held in betting accounts, paypal accounts, money held anywhere really. I'm not sure even high credit balances on energy accounts might be considered - anywhere that money has been placed that is available as capital.
So - the kinds of things that are attracting their attention are - suddenly just before the assessment period day, capital suddenly gets spent and it looks like the reason for the spend is purely to get rid of it as it happens every month at AP time.
Or - an amount of money is moving over to someone else's bank account every month - they'll want to know why.
And - things they do ask about - once they hear a plausible explanation, that's it.
Even if worst comes to worst and there is undeclared capital, they only want to recalculate and get the money back.
It is not the fraud department doing these reviews. Even if your brother's claim gets passed to enhanced compliance where they call in more bank statements, it is not a fraud investigation. It's just for a closer look at the claim.
I promise that your decisions as an appointee will not be called into question. There would need to be some serious irregularities on the account for it to be escalated to deliberate fraud. If they did suspect deliberate fraud and you were interviewed under caution, that is when your appointeeship would be looked at.
For these non-fraud dept checks, nothing to worry about.
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Ps we don't have a financial guardianship for our son - we were advised if DWP appointee was sufficient, keep with that as you do NOT need to record where everything is spent for dwp appointee. It is much easier than being a financial guardian, which is overseen by the courts.
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Open this link and look for the bit "latest" under For Organisations.
That takes you to 3 podcasts and i can highly recommend podcast numbers 1 and 2.
Dwp appointee responsibilities explained in full. Don't be put off by it being a Scottish site - a very worthwhile listem and relevant for DWP appointees everywhere.
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Aniston Thank you for your help. My issue is that I have standing orders set up each month going to my bank. £260 for food shopping which includes Tesco shopping being delivered to him every week and I pick up other food items throughout the month and it comes to around £260 each month £60 a week(sometimes I know I spend more) and set this up to help with budgeting. Also we have a family caravan which we take my brother to nearly every weekend between March and December and we split the running costs 3 ways to cover pitch fees, heating, insurance my brother agrees to this as he loves going to the caravan and I set that up as a Standing order too £160 a month for budgeting. Also his amazon prime £8.99 and mobile £29.32 come from my account so they are set up as a Standing order too. It's all to make it easier for budgeting and for my brother to understand so that's it's clear to him and we discuss his finances monthly. So Standing orders of £438 each month. Will this be a problem. Def nothing untoward going and hopefully this is understood. Once this review is over I am going to have the shopping, mobile and amazon all changed to his account so that it is coming out directly. I'm so concerned about this review. Do you think I will end up with issues with it.
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BTW I'm in Scotland
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I really do think you will be ok once you explain it to them.
There is always a chance you might be asked to submit extra evidence such as official evidence you have ownership of a caravan and what the site fees are.
You might be asked for more bank statements to show that your explanation about going to the caravan every year 'adds up'
They might also query you on why you have the financial arrangement you do.
But, if everything tallies together, it can't go any further. The expenses you mention are perfectly reasonable. Once you have answered their questions and provided any extra evidence asked for, that will be the end of it.
They won't even ask you to re-organise your bank accounts as you're not doing anything wrong. Just making it trickier for yourself!
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