Pathological Demand Avoidance suspected - 15 year old

ooo1

hi, just wandered pls, is anyone in a similar situation pls, thanks

theme79

having a young person with ‘suspected’ PDA is difficult as firstly who suggested this diagnosis and why as whilst diagnosis can be useful in getting help educationally and learning to navigate the world diagnosis is a description not a solution and it’s always worth bearing that in mind - it’s a step but just a step and it really important that the first step is correct or at the very least only seen as a piece of information and always early on under review.

Lainybear

Hi ooo1

I’ve only just recently heard of this through a friend of a friend 🤔

I myself am on the Autistic spectrum as are 2 of my children

Accompanied with ADHD traits

I’m with @theme79

Why has PDA been suspected ?

I would suggest reading more into PDA before it’s given as a diagnosis 🥴

I only heard of it recently

When my friend asked if I knew or had any information on what PDA Autism was 🤔

I would read information on the actual Autism uk website

It’s an honest and accurate source.

I also directed my friend to it

The article states that there is no link between Autism and PDA

Or PDA being a form of autism

Hope this information helps you

Maybe expand a little more on circumstances around suspected PDA diagnosis if your happy to share

Sending hugs 🤗

anisty

Hmm - can you send a link to the website that says there's no link between PDA and autism, @Lainybear ?

I agree it isn't given as a diagnosis officially but that is because it is not referenced in DSMV and if it aint in there, it hasn't been recognised as an official diagnosis!

I have worked with a 6yr old boy though who was labelled as having PDA and he could not remain in mainstream. Exceptionally intelligent but unable to work within any rules set by others.

His definitely was considered autism as he now attends a specialist school for autistic children and is doing really well.

Having known him, i strongly suspect my brother (born 1969) would fit a PDA profile. Another one who could not fit into any rule based system and, by 15, had attracted the attention of the Police and his life did not continue well.

And my eldest son (28) another one with very much his own agenda who has settled down now but we had a horrific time with him as a teen.

All my kids (i have 5, all adult now) are autistic but my eldest son definitely has traits common to a PDA profile which set him apart.

A total inability to recognise where he fits into a hierarchy and refusal to follow rule bound systems.

Why are you thinking PDA, OP? Has your lad been out of education a while or has he got/had specialist provision. Certainly a difficult age for any teen but PDA is a tough one for sure.

My brother just got kicked out of home - obvs born 1969 there was no help.

And my son just took off and left home at 18! We felt mightily relieved and didn't see him then for quite a few years. Happily, he met a really fantastic girlfriend and he's settled right down. Even managing full time daytime work!! He was on nighttime shifts only for many years - where they put everyone who could not be public-facing!! He used to joke about that and all his colleagues with issues who only worked nights🤣

PDA was never mentioned with regard to my son - but he is different to my others. I know it is very hard to stay in employment with PDA. My son's been through umpteen jobs but he has stuck with this one for nearly 3 years now. His partner is a tower of support to him and their little girl. They live very far from me which is best all round i think.

anisty

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/behaviour/demand-avoidance

This is from the National Autistic Society website.

Lainybear

hi @anisty

if you read further down although characteristically similar it states

Advocate’s of PDA often see it as potential profile of Autism

But this has not been confirmed as medical fact

ODD and DA are very different to PDA

An autistic diagnosis is the body of the diagnosis which can be accompanied with traits or characteristics of other stand alone condition’s like ….

ODD

ADHD

DA ect….

But they are just characteristic in the individuals ASD diagnosis

Don’t forget an ASD assessment covers from mild to server ASD including observed traits from many overlapping conditions

When the characteristic’s are more prominent towards another diagnosis this means….

Just as you can be ADHD with autistic traits

the diagnosis would be ADHD, not ASD with ADHD traits

PDA isn’t an actual diagnosis as it’s not recognised medically

I’m not saying it doesn’t exist

But to advocate that it is a main characteristic for a profile of an ASD diagnosis baffles me

I have to be in control to cope with life not situations circumstances or people

The word pathological has a whole different meaning when attached to the word Liar as an example

My words above are in no way written to offend or upset anybody

sending huge hugs 🤗

anisty

Oh, please don't worry @Lainybear - no offense taken at all. I knew it wasn't a recognised label yet. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it appears in the next DSM - DSMV1!

You know, they did away with Aspergers Syndrome in DSMV so that apparently no longer exists either - but if you know anyone who has that diagnosis, that cohort does share characterisics quite distinct from others on the autistic spectrum.

Same with PDA. My experience is limited but i think, if you are dealing with a child especially, it's worth knowing that structure, routine and clear, simple rules work very well with autistic children. But with PDA - not at all!! They'll kick off big time against any rule-setting by adults.

A totally different technique is needed.

For our OP - well teens tend to challenge authority anyway and autism can present many extra difficulties to navigate - impacting mental health.

I am guessing that PDA is going to throw running away behaviour and physical violence on top of all that. And of course you can get those behaviours in autism too but are they always tied to avoidance of demands? I'm not so sure!

I wonder what behaviours OP is seeing to make her query PDA specifically.

anisty

PS just going back to my brother - he wasn't diagnosed with anything, not even autism. He was cognitively able and went to mainstream school without additional support but he was difficult. However, our family background wasn't the best with domestic violence and all kinds of factors that could have resulted in him going off the rails as a teen. Our Mum was a suicide when he'd just turned 18, then he was kicked out by my Dad and the rest of his life one of homelessness and crime.

My eldest son - totally different home set up. Stable with no violence. I am mentally healthy so no erratic behaviour or any adverse home factors at all.

YET - my son seemed to show a lot of characteristics of my brother (they never met at all) It was like something unfolding in the genes that i was powerless to stop.

My son fortunately has been settled and has a home but it's a fine line i think between him going the same way as my brother. Definitely more nature than nurture there and SO very different from all my other kids.

And it is that extreme reluctance to 'fit in' The other thing different about my eldest and my brother too - both very popular, both good-looking and surrounded by the girls. Which is another PDA thing - that social ability is there when needed.

All my others are 'typical' autistic - much more prone to avoiding social situations and prefer their own company and computer games!

Not that there's a 'typical' presentation of autism but you'll know what i mean. Headphones on, own worlds!