Job centre/work coach weirdness

Porterhouse

Hello everybody. Just having a really nasty time with the Job Centre and was wondering if anybody had any similar experiences.

Trying to keep it short: I left my appointment (Limited capability for work, serious Bipolar ii) and got my text with the next appointment shortly after. Later on I checked my second email account and found a UC email saying accept your commitments which was in itself strange because we hadn’t discussed them at all. What was even weirder was the 35 hours job preparation weekly (up from 0). Well giving them the benefit of the doubt this was a mistake, so I sent a reasonably strongly worded email to my coach saying I wouldn’t sign it and asked basically what the hell was going on.

In the morning he replied saying he’d amend it so when I checked later there was a new box this time with better but still undiscussed 5 hours per week. However worryingly the previous commitments was and is still there so I only signed it when he sent me a long message with some flat out lies in confirming I wasn’t expected to do any job search activity.

The problem I still have is that there is still a big angry “sign your commitments or you will lose your benefit in five days” box on my to do list despite me having a “you have signed your commitments” message in my journal.

Final thoughts:

Sorry seems to be the hardest word in the job centre.

The phone line quality is wildly different between agents. I had one who wouldn’t discuss my account at all, whereas another quoted a work coach message word for word.

I am a deeply disillusioned former Labour supporter, who is praying that the backbenchers rebel and force an embarrassing climb down.

Thank you to any of you that took the time to read and possibly respond. All the best. Andrew.

Holly_Scope

Hi @Porterhouse I'm so sorry to read about your experience- that is a really big leap to 35 hours! I can completely understand why that threw you. Really appreciate you taking the time to share this with the community.

Porterhouse

Thanks for reading and replying Holly. Yeah I think we have to accept it was a mistake because the alternative would be too evil even for the current Labour mob. Waiting to hear if they want me to sign this 35 hour box as well, but will not be doing that before I go to Citizens Advice tomorrow. Forgot to mention I have to go monthly now instead of every three month. Pretty sure these nasty changes were drafted by the Tories but my word Labour are applying them with full gusto. I’m both more assertive and more secure than a lot of our disabled brethren so really see why people are so scared and send everyone who receives either or both PIP and any UC extra amounts my full empathy and support. Perversely enough my PIP was re-upped for four years recently and it’s like for every positive thing they do for you they have to do something horrible to balance it out.

Albus_Scope

That sounds like quite a serious mix up @Porterhouse can I just confirm you're LCW and not LCWRA?

Porterhouse

I am most definitely just LC Albus more’s the pity. They put me in and got me out of the ESA Support Group when I moved home to a UC area. Thanks for saying that because nobody at the DWP has given any importance to the why or where the 35 hour work commitment box came from, which in anyone’s books is a major horlicks. I was in a mixed state when this nonsense started and it’s made me much worse. Job coach also said that we have discussed something several times which in reality we haven’t discussed once. Worked in customer service and know awful service when I get it. Big up to you, Holly and any others who keep this place running smoothly.

Porterhouse

lcw not lc 😜

Porterhouse

Update: Got up super early to get in the Citizens Advice queue, which consisted of me. Spoke to a nice lady who it seems was mostly an information gatherer, who disappeared for quite a while to speak to the expert, and came back with the name of three managers at the Job Centre. Emboldened by this, and because the job centre is nearby, I decided the best option was to ‘door step’ them. The first lady tried to fob me off on the work coach who had caused all my issues, which I replied to that I wasn’t happy with that and that it was not talking to a manager. Eventually I got a sit down with a manager right next to my job coach. Where I basically said I was unhappy at not being consulted for either set of commitments and got her word that accepting the 35 hours a week wouldn’t add it to my account. Small victory but I got power back over my claim because it really felt like they tried to strong arm me when I am at my most vulnerable.

Final thoughts: The job centre really is like an impenetrable fortress.

It takes real stones to do what I did today because the hostility from lady 1 was palpable. They really do like to have control to the nth degree.

I do now have five hours work preparation per week, the vaguest term ever. I’ll just work on my music for five hours

wecandothis

I can really relate to what you’re going through. I’ve had a tough time with my Work Coach too—being pressured into things that weren’t suitable for me, despite being in the Work-Related Activity Group (WRAG). At one point, I was told I’d have to do things that I later found out I wasn’t actually required to do. The whole process has caused me a lot of stress, anxiety, and even worsened my health. It was when I got home that I noticed that the WC claimed that I had agreed commitments.

Like you, I had a scare with commitments I hadn’t agreed to. My Work Coach set things up without properly discussing them, and I had to push back. In the end, I was able to get some of it sorted, but the way they handle things can feel really unfair and aggressive. She wanted me to start immediately in a toy shop.

I used to meet the WC every 3 months she changed it to every month and was going to make it e every fortnight. I had a bit of a meltdown.

I rang the ESA and UC helplines (I’m currently migrating ESA to UC) the JC manager rang back and said I don't need to attend the meetings with the WC and if I need to go down in the future they’ll talk to me downstairs in a private room rather than in the open office where everyone can listen.

I couldn't sleep, or eat and was a wreck and finally rang my GP. He has signed me off indefinitely and put me on BP and depression medication.

It seems like the help back to work is in fact being coerced into work regardless of taking one's health into account. I am 62 - the WC wanted me to do an apprenticeship.

It sounds like you are very strong and well done @Porterhouse.

Porterhouse

Thanks for reading and responding @wecandothis and I feel you massively because our experiences are remarkably similar. Do you mind if I ask if the BP meds you mentioned mean blood presssure, I only ask because you might have noticed I’m the other BP bipolar lol. That only manifested fully when I was put on anti deps like you, I was on ESA like you in the Suppirt Group, it was bliss compared to UC. I’m only 44 and I can really imagine it being significantly worse for you at your age as respect your elders isn’t being applied in your case. Do you mind me asking what area you are in? I’m in Berkshire which until recently was hardcore Tory territory but Labour look more like the Tory’s than the Tory’s currently. Thanks for saying I’m strong, I sort of am and I aren’t. I was a very successful sportsman in multiple sports in my youth so can still tap in to that ‘big game’ mentality for things like today. I’m strongly considering contacting my MP. Honestly your reply made my evening because a problem shared is better for both of us. If you ever want to chat within reason I’m happy to on this thread. Stay strong soldier. My name is Andrew by the way.

wecandothis

Thanks for your message. @Porterhouse Yes, I meant blood pressure meds—I had a bit of a spike with all the stress, and the GP thought it best to put me on something to manage it. And I get what you mean about the other BP! Must be tough navigating all this while dealing with bipolar.

It really does sound like we’ve been through a similar wringer. The Work Coaches are bullies.

It’s good to hear you still have that ‘big game’ mentality from your sports days being able to tap into that must help. I don’t feel particularly strong, but knowing I’m not the only one going through this makes a difference.

Contacting your MP could be a good move. I’m in West Sussex and ours was a Tiry stronghold, too, yet Labour seem to be more hard right that the Tories my MP doesn't bother replying. I’m hoping more people push back against these policies. It really does feel like the government is forcing people into work without considering individual circumstances.

Indeed, It’s great talking to you like you said, a problem shared is a problem halved.

Lol, I'm Andrew, too.

Porterhouse

Hello again fellow Andrew, good solid name we share. Sorry to hear about your BP although I’m not surprised your treatment caused it to spike. Yeah it’s not easy because the change to monthly means I can’t schedule my appointments around the worst of my moods. That said I was in there fully hypomanic the other day so the manager got a taste of one of the major reasons I can’t work.

I probably will contact my MP at some point. That’s bad of yours, part of their remit is to help people in our and other similar positions in life.

You are absolutely right about the problem halved part as the benefits system is a lonely behemoth, and what we are being put through is only really fully understandable by someone who is going through the same.

Well you have a good evening and weekend now. I just had my best ever bonus round on my favourite slot, the maximum amount I think, for a tiny 10p stake. Awesome stuff. Andrew.

WhatThe

Porterhouse, wondering if anybody had any similar experiences..

🙄 very similar on all fronts 😞

Porterhouse

Thanks for reading and replying/sharing WhatThe. Sorry to hear you are going through the same horrible experience. I hope you don’t mind me asking but is yours a mental health issue like mine?

WhatThe

Hey, medical and psychological.

I'm a long-time claimant and these 'coaches' are not nice.

Topcat71

I think we all got a lot to come but we must not put up with it. It reminds me once the company I worked for said we going to pay a good wage for a supervisor so if you are interested then show what you can do. They all got carried away boss each other about. With all these possible changes coming they getting above themselves. You did great to challenge..all the best .

wecandothis

You are right. The government's propaganda about “helping back to work” is untrue. It is tricking and coercing in the most vitriolic way — Scaring the most vulnerable into work without regard for their health or what their doctors say. WC’s are taking the decision that you are fit for work just regardless of the consequences. They use that dreadful phrase “The decision maker says you might not be fit for some work but there is work that you can do.” it is conscious cruelty that does need to be pushed back.
Expecting @Porterhouse to spend 35 hours a week searching is mental cruelty and inhumane, especially with the online reporting back and having to explain how and what you have done. This goes unsaid in the media.

KBO peeps.

WhatThe

wecandothis, hi and welcome to Scope!

if I need to go down in the future they’ll talk to me downstairs in a private room

My JCP 'quiet room' is like a police interview room, very bright lights, glass screen to the ceiling and locked door. I was left alone for ages and thought, ok this is all part of their test but it was horrible being trapped in there! I had water to keep me calm which I carry everywhere 😑

Thought I should mention my experience. They may not all be like that of course.

Porterhouse

Hello again everybody especially Topcat71 who has joined the thread, welcome to you.

WhatThe: Very similar here my undiagnosed arthritis is debilitating on its own let alone with mental health on top but they usually go together. Lower back is the worst for me.

Topcat71 your example is a good one. The one that springs to my mind is the Stanford Prison Experiment. History shows us those who are given power they haven’t earned nearly always abuse it. Worked myself in betting shops up to management level before getting sick and that is a true nest of vipers. Thanks mate, you are absolutely right about fighting back, our war is here.

wecandothis: Not a lie was spoken by thee. I liken the 35 hours to over playing your hand in a card game, picked a number that basically forced me to fight back. Was that a cheeky Churchill reference there by the way (KBO). Official historian checking in 😎

WhatThe: I hear you on the quiet room part. I was left alone in a room at the Citizens Advice that felt similar to that, luckily I had my earphones and some GoTeam to keep me sane. Funnily enough I prefer talking on the office floor at JC because for me at least there, there are witnesses although extremely biased ones.

Wow, my thread blew up lol I glad it gives us a place to share grim stories and commiserate with each other. Topkat71 is right, we have to fight back within the rules, I’m pretty sure creating claimant commitments without consultation is against the law of the land but definitely against the published literature on the subject on the YouGov site. We are in the craziest timeline. I never thought it would be worse than when I was first diagnosed during Austerity but it is, and under a Labour government it is just mind blowing. Have a great weekend everyone. Andrew.

wecandothis

Hi Peeps,

@Topcat71 @WhatThe that is dreadful, it sounds like solitary confinement with an intention of coercion in an SS-style interrogation. It would not surprise me if they were watching how you coped. I sure feel for you and dread what we have to face. It must be painful just recalling the dark experience. Thanks for your insight.

So very true, give someone - immature - a position of perceived power and they abuse it and even get a kick out of seeing others suffer.

@Porterhouse I’ve seen ppl complaining on the disability site about having to search for work for 35 hours p/w during the COVID-19 lockdown. They were stressed out enough yet they were t given a break until they broke. Indeed KBO “keep buggering on” You know your stuff. 😄 Yet it does feel like WW11 persecution. The prosecutor turned Persecutor at the moment.

The reason I asked for a private office or safe area is I didn't want others to hear about Mum dying in January, my partner in July and then in November my brother died as it is extremely painful talking about things where there is zero privacy.

You're right about this Labour government, I tore up my membership card they starting to resemble the 1930s Nazi party.

Keep smiling.

Porterhouse

@wecandothis That is a horrible run of events you had to endure. I’m disappointed but not surprised to hear about people’s treatment during COVID. Can’t take the credit there friend, Google was my friend on that one, love a good historical reference.

Keep that chin up.

Porterhouse

@wecandothis We lost my nan during COVID. Luckily we were able to go to the funeral but the wake consisted of sitting in the car park for maybe 20 minutes. Dark times.