I don't know what to do. Elderly mother.

vapegirlclouds

Hi Apologies for any errors I'm visually impaired.

I'm my mums carer. She has carers 3x a day & I go every day.

I change her catheter bag, do her diabetes monitor make sure she's in the right position etc.

We've done POA & have a joint bank account.

Mum has been having memory problems, she's bedbound. She randomly sat up a few weeks ago then couldn't remember. The carers told me.

Ive been doing this almost a year.

My nephew is an addict & my sister enables it. Tgey can do no wrong in my mother's eyes.

Ive uncovered abusive messages my nephew sent to my mum & mum has sent him thousands of pounds over the last few years.

II Pay for my mums phone. On the weekend nephew used the phone to download snapchat & he did a drugs deal where he ordered drugs, again using mums phone i pay for.

I sent him a message stating grans phone wasn't for snapchat or drugs deals & sent it to my sister.

She responded that it was just for e liquid I should get the facts so I sent her the screenshot & she replied I should have dealt with it & not told her.

Nephew said ominously not to text him again & he'd be seeing me soon.

Mum has asked me to stop phoning people. I haven't & she's told me to just stop.

I Said its my responsibility to safeguard you. She went mental & said ill go to court to stop poa.

We're waiting for capacity assessment due to her memory. She already has brain lesions.

I have all the transactions where she has sent him money. Its thousands.

If I stop what I'm doing to care for her she'll have to go in a home. But it's killing me.

She would clearly rather I stop & continue giving money etc.

She lied about me a few weeks ago. Said the fact I bought wipes & shampoo caps out of her money made her direct debits bounce. When she had given nephew £200.

I have a phonecall with gp this afternoon.

I don't believe she has the capacity to manage anything financial. Her direct debits keep bouncing as she's giving the money to nephew.

I asked her not to give phone to nephew & she said she'll try in a snippy tone.

She can recall times tables & not if she's sent money & not conversations. The carers have noticed my sister in law has noticed. But when sister speaks to mum on phone mum says she's fine when she isn't.

I just don't know what to do.

Mum was abused by my dad for years & always protected him too.

Mym mum will just stick her nose on air & be stubborn.

I'm not in the wrong here but being shouted at & blamed as if I am.

MMy Husband thinks I shouldn't go there anymore.

Help!

Hopeless

I’d advise you to phone AgeUK and have a chat with them. They were really good with advice when we were having problems with my dad. If the issue is complicated they give you another number to ring with specialised help.

Just be aware that the capacity test is generally passed as the person has capacity to make their own decisions even when the decision isn’t in their best interests. It really took us back when dad was assessed as having capacity and since then friends in similar positions have said their relative was also deemed to have capacity when they so obviously don’t!

My heart goes out to you as I know how hard this type of situation is

Albus_Scope

Hi @vapegirlclouds thank you for opening up to us, I understand how difficult that must have been for you, so thank you.
I'm afraid I can't advise on this due to it's complexities and it's not a situation I've dealt with before, but Hopeless has given a very good call with contacting AgeUK, I think they may well be the best people to speak to as they may have encountered a situation like this before. But I really do wish that this situation can be dealt with with minimal emotional impact to any of you.

Wheeled_Weapon

I mean me personally I'd get the Police involved, it's a safeguarding issue. Include the threatening messages from the nephew. You have evidence, screenshot it and forward it to yourself.

vapegirlclouds

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1038421#Comment_1038421

it's what I want to do, but she'll never forgive me. I've told social services that I have evidence of abuse, so it may go out of my hands now.

vapegirlclouds

Thanks. I've spoken to hp & they've started dementia testing again & she told me to contact social which ive done.

vapegirlclouds

Thanks, exactly. The gp said that they've restarted dementia testing & to contact social for a financial assessment. That's my worry.worry.mshes making some terrible decisions where her bills are bouncing. But shes making them when fully with it & not with it. How do you test fornthat!

Wheeled_Weapon

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1038424#Comment_1038424

It's an awful situation for you to be in. You obviously love your Mother and sometimes you have to do the most difficult things for the good of the people you love.

Zipz

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/135685/i-dont-know-what-to-do-elderly-mother

Hi @vapegirlclouds My heart goes out to you. I have to agree with @Wheeled_Weapon This is a safeguarding issue. Your Mum is subject to elder abuse by members of her family. That your Mum has lost some mental capacity combined with your relatives' manipulation of her and unpleasantness towards you could lead to you being accused of abuse. Put the police in the picture. Please.

Santosha12

Hi @vapegirlclouds, I'm really sorry you're going through this, I would also consider contacting Dementia UK and/or Alzheimers UK, both have a helpline (I appreciate your mum doesn't yet have a diagnosis of dementia). Both of these were a huge support to me when I needed advice, when I was caring for my mum.

I'm assuming you have Power of Attorney for Health as well as Finances. Does anyone else have POA as well as yourself ?(ie your sister or other family member). If they do, is it Joint or can each make decisions separately, ie without needing the others' consent.

I ask this partly, because you said you have a joint bank account with your mum.

Only raising those two points above for you to consider so you protect yourself due to the considerable (legal) responsibility having POA and which includes the protection of your mums assets (from nephew for instance and your sister who's enabled him). But also protecting your own credit/reputation, if other family members can access what is your account too.

I had very, very difficult experiences with both of my sisters, one of whom had POA along with myself, the other did not but had access/managed mum's finances. Being the only one doing the right thing consistently for mum led to my estrangement from them. That was very traumatic and sad.

I hope you're able to navigate through this with support. Looking after yourself has to be your main priority too. It can take its toll physically and emotionally. Getting advice will hopefully help you make sense of the right options for you. Take good care of yourself too and my very warmest wishes to you 🫂.

vapegirlclouds

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1038463#Comment_1038463

It sounds like my life. Only i have poa & only i have a joint account with mum but I cant stop her giving her card away. Mum has already told me not to go there & I'm the only one doing anything to help my mum. It's such a mess. It is traumatic. Why cant we all just have normal families where people are concerned about their elderly relatives instead of abusing them.

Yes my concern was the direct debits bouncing affecting my credit score too. I was going to take the bills money this month & put it back in the night before bills were due so they wouldn't bounce.

Santosha12

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1038503#Comment_1038503

I feel for you I really do, it's a very, very difficult position to be in. Sorry this is a bit long but I hope at least some of it might help you. I hope you can get some time to sit with a cup of tea and not feel stressed at the information, just that it's one bit of the jigsaw that will help you going forward.

I do hope you seek advice especially regarding the POA. I took advice from a solicitor FOC re mum's POA but don't have it in my 'phone now (c 2017). I'll look in my diaries this morning in case I've still got it.

I don't remember the exact law now on POA as it may have changed but, as it was, you can apply to the Office of the Public Guardian to be removed from it at no cost.

If your mum wants to make changes ie revoke you as an Attorney, there may be a cost (likely) to get a certificate of capacity from her doctor and a cost to the OPG to revoke it.

I'm not suggesting or imagining that's what you want to do but it's as well to have the facts.

I understand you cannot stop her giving her bank card away. My mum didn't have access to her bank cards for c maybe a year, before she sadly had to go into a care home in 2019. She just had cash but not a huge amount (£20-30 max, at any one time).

Her dementia was such by then that she definitely did not have capacity for any important/big decisions however, she wasn't bed/housebound and wasn't safe at home, or outside on her own (she got in a stranger's car at some traffic lights 6 miles from home, asking the lady driver to take her to the bank). The lady did but got my phone number and rang to let me know, she was luckily very kind and took mum home 😪.

If your GP confirms your mum does lack capacity to make certain decisions (finances for instance) then I'm pretty sure that's when the POA 'kicks in' automatically (assuming it's been registered).

In that case, I would have a meeting with the bank taking the CERTIFIED copy of the POA (this is not just a photocopy but has the raised dots near the bottom of each page) with you (but don't let them keep it, they can just copy it but make sure that they give you the correct certified copy back as it's a complete time-consuming palaver applying for a new one and c 60.00!!), and letting them know what's happened re giving her card/money away, and putting a stop on the card, re-issuing one just to you.

This is why I'd urge you to seek advice about the best way forward as your family situation is unique to you and isn't my situation.

One 'rule' I had about making decisions on mum's behalf, and in her best interests, was just one question I'd ask myself. Would this [action/choice] be one that mum would have made for herself when she didn't have dementia? As an example, sisters might say let's each have X amount of money for birthday/Christmas off mum. No, wasn't agreed to as mum only ever spent c 20.00 not 100.00+ (each) as she was careful with money.

Even if your mum would have given hundreds of £'s to your nephew before, the responsibility of a POA is to protect and not to deprive her assets - making the decisions for her in her best interests.

I hope that you feel able to continue to go each day to help your mum, and that you might find a way to avoid conversations with her relating to money/don't get drawn in or argue back, even agree if necessary to avoid escalation and let the GP or social worker determine if she has capacity to make such financial decisions.

Advice and conversations from, say, Dementia UK, can help, that can also then help reduce the stress that you, very understandably, feel. When you're feeling clearer about your options that will help you too.

I did not look after my own wellbeing over c 7 years, gave up a very good Clinical Lead nursing job to work on Agency to be able to take mum to appointments (160 in one year). I will never regret giving mum the help she needed but it took a toll on me/my health and my finances, where my sisters' situation were not worsened.

Very best wishes to you whatever you decide on. Please feel free to ask if you've any questions at all. Thinking of you and I'm hoping that with the help of your husband too, you get through this to a path that is acceptable for you and one that most of all, protects your health, wellbeing and happiness as it can be a long road. Lots of love to you xx