Studying outcomes of Neurodivergent People

Jane315STARX

As my teenage son is Neurodivergent and suicidal and obviously going through a lot and not interested in the future.I thought I'd take a look at what/could be his future by looking at what others in their 20s and 30s are facing in the work place by looking at general forums.What im seeing is quite shocking.Very negative and unsurprising actually Obviously im not going to relay any of this to my son.But again we can see a strong pattern emerging generally.

Biblioklept

I'm not a great example myself currently, but I have had some very successful jobs and earned really well for large periods of my life. Sometimes from home, sometimes in the work place, sometimes public-facing or with other people, sometimes on my own. I don't think I have ever been mistreated at work for neurodivergence, there have been some misunderstandings but mostly it's been fine. ❤️

What I'm saying is please don't lose heart and remember, like with PIP or benefits in general, that most people posting their experience will be because it's negative - it doesn't mean everyone's experience is and doesn't guarantee what your son's future will be!

The best thing you can do for him is help him explore his interests at home, find what he's passionate about. 5 years ago a lot of the jobs people do now didn't exist. 5 years from now the work place will be very different again! If you help him find passions, he'll find something.

Catherine21

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/139714/studying-outcomes-of-neurodivergent-people

The advancement of AI is scary my daughter data analysis and im scared for her future shes got a mortgage i feel such despair for the future for the younger generation and us all tbh feel very unsettled every minute of the day

Jane315STARX

@Biblioklept thank you for your informative and personal response.My take on the research has been an overall approach on how my son has always looked upon and towards everything.He doesn't have interest in anything and never really has ( very odd I know).So he is pigeon holed into a position whereby he is now old enough to use his own words to say "I don't fit into society ".People,I.e professionals whom are obviously highly academic have told him that he will find his interest as time goes on.But he never has.I feel like A.I and technology can be instrumental for the future depending on which way its used.It wont help my son but for children who have hope,a positive outlook and an aspiration.I think it will certainly help bring lots of change

OverlyAnxious

Recently I've found the idea of interests to be quite interesting… Where do they come from? Why are they all different even between seemingly similar people and even direct relatives?

I'm very similar similar to your son, never had a strong interest in anything. I got pushed into a few hobby attempts by family members when young (sport, music, etc) but never did like them so stopped after a few sessions. Never did any extra curricular activities, clubs or groups either. Tried a few once or twice but didn't want to go back again. Pre-covid I tried a real world OCD/anxiety group, and didn't like that either. I can safely say I don't fit into this society, and I am genuinely concerned what the future looks like for me now, especially with physical disabilities that mean I can no longer live fully independently, but also can't cope living with other people either. I would rather not be here at all now, and have been like that for decades, but don't have the strength to end it myself, (if that's the right word) so just have to wait for the natural end and hope that happens before anything else gets worse.

I've never had interest in relationships or having kids either - and clearly that is an evolutionary fault in my DNA. The human race wouldn't survive if no-one had any interest in that! 😄 Is that to do with neurodivergence? I have wondered…

I've also wondered whether other interests are actually evolutionary as well. It's an evolutionary advantage for the human race to have many different interests, many different skills, that allows them to thrive in many different environments across the world and to keep searching for new places to explore, new foods to eat, new technologies to build upon, making more and more progress over millennia…

The new technologies one is particularly intriguing…because a large number of scientists and tech inventors were/are neurodiverse. That seems to allow their minds to work in a different way, and see things that others couldn't see. The problem with all evolutionary DNA mutations is that it's a lot of trial and error over many generations of humans…some neurodiverse people get massive benefits (Elon Musk & Bill Gates for example)…others end up drawing the short straw and get all of the negatives without any of the benefits (I'd class myself in this group!).

So what does the future hold for your son? None of us can predict the future unfortunately. I'd like to hope society does become more understanding and more accessible in future for your sons generation, and those afterwards. Though with the latest governments in the UK & US, it feels like we've gone backwards. Just have to hope that gets reversed again soon, before they cause too much damage.

Littlefatfriend

Thanks for your post Jane31STARX

AI can be fantastically good at generating models and identifying/following patterns.

For example that's why it may be (and already has been) a great aid to our treatment and understanding of cancers. Eventually it may even help us work out how and why starlings murmurate in the ways they do. But people will need to tell it how to.

In order to do those things it always requires humans to tell it both how and where to start and how to continue. People must have the original ideas.

Like others above I have worked alongside people with neurodivergence, people with physical and sensory disabilities, people from all sorts of backgrounds and people from various countries around the world. We did research and worked with the interweb and marketing, then teaching. Frankly we were very good at it and sometimes almost embarrassingly well paid for work we enjoyed doing!

What each of those people (and I suppose I) most beneficially brought to that work was a product of our unique experiences and opinions, sometimes our emotional perspectives. We didn't and couldn't learn them from a book.

Computers are still an awfully long way from being able to replicate that or anything like it. Look at the constant gaffs of chatgpt etc!

Precisely because our perspectives are unique to us but formed through shared experiences, I've never seen anything which makes me yet believe computers will ever be capable of them. All they can do better/faster than us is analyse the patterns they are instructed to.

Amazon and Bezos make extremely profitable use of robots and AI in their logistics, but that job is uniquely well-suited to computers and the "robots" they control.

In the vast majority of other work situations robots would be impractically expensive as a replacement for people, and AI simply isn't a better solution.

Human nature and algorithms combine most often to show forums the posts which most affect us emotionally. Therefore (as with the tabloid press and Twitter) the more controversial and provoking the story/post, the more likely we are to see it and be interested enough to read it and react to it. That's in part how the algorithms are designed, but crucially it's because we are most likely to read the most affecting posts. Their emotional impact will therefore prompt some people to respond to them emotionally, and the cycle continues in the responses to posts. The whole system is designed to attract us (most often in order to sell us adverts), and we really are very, very predictable. Please don't be misled by how much these factors make forums show us the saddest and most upsetting/affecting posts first.

Few people would read a post here for example if I wrote what a lovely day I had yesterday. It was warm and dry for November. I took my Jaaag out for a spin, saw some friends, and I'm continuing to enjoy and explore my new wheelchair. The cats here mostly slept (as they will!) but they enjoyed their meals and a treat on the evening.

It was good for me but it's unlikely to be of much interest to anyone else!

In the 35 years I've used wheelchairs (I'm 52) the opportunities available for people with disabilities have improved at an exponential rate. Often enabled through technology but always driven and inspired by people.

I can't predict the future, obvs, but I remain optimistic that things may improve for all of us.

The example most often quoted is that intuition, creativity, and self-awareness led Einstein to conceive of the idea that E=mc². Computers have no capacity whatsoever for any of those things. It's likely Einstein would today be recognised as on the autistic spectrum. A chap with autism who often worked with us very rarely spoke at meetings (or elsewhere), but when he did we all listened carefully because so often he thought of angles which the rest of us would most likely never have noticed.

The same is true for many, far more simple things we know and accept every day.

We can work it out, and computers can't.

Here endeth the lesson, please pardon me!

😇

Jane315STARX

Such an incredible an varied response from everyone.its so nice to have other people's perspectives and lived experience.I completely agree on the obvious lack of ability of computer technology having the inability to replicate emotion.Maybe Trump can come up with the 1st Narcissistic model ( A computer with no Empathy seems pretty Apt).I can see the Headlines now...Although its more Elons Demain.What I find fascinating is the measure of a person's intelligence and how much you actually gain from living as you go.What I mean by this is I think I've learnt a huge percentage of my knowledge from observation,real lived experience,picking people's brains and common sense by applying readily avaliable data.How many people have you met who are academically geniuses on paper.But sometimes in situations are staggeringly stupid? And you question how is it possible 🤔.I think with neurodiversity there seems to be many cross overs for example with Adhd and Autism ( both of which my son has diagnosis of).From what I understand it wasn't always felt that both could coexist.Which makes me wonder what else is misunderstood in these brains of ours.I think certain things in years to come wont change like the love people have for music and dance and Art and I think for this its a positive at least ( especially if you are a human with a gift in one of these fields)

JennieWren

My daughter is asc and has anxiety as well as other conditions and is waiting for an adhd referral. Her boyfriend is asc and my friends daughter is adhd and her fiancé is asc. We’ve found that although universities, and even more so, employers say they’re willing to make reasonable adjustments once they actually have employed one of them the support and reasonable adjustments just aren’t made. They have told my daughter repeatedly that she needs to gain more confidence, despite her declaring her issues at the application stage. One of them was told when walking around the workplace he needs to smile more. Several of them have lost jobs due to their managers and colleagues not being able to cope with them not joining in on the banter. One of them works in a furniture shop and instead of a shop target, they have individual targets which they never seem to meet despite trying really hard. It has affected all of their mental health when they either lose their job or are critiqued on who they are. My daughter and her boyfriend are in their final year at university and have struggled to find and keep employment despite going out of their way, doing extra shifts, being on time etc and my friend’s fiancé is working part time as his mental health was so impacted by a previous employer. I really worry for them as they’ve all got above average GCSE and A levels and all either have or are working towards degrees.

Jane315STARX

Yes Ive read countless stories not dissimilar to yours.Which is why I think it affects people who are Neurodivergent on Mass.There are such a broad range and it seems to affect people at different times and levels.But all seem to have their mental health impacted by either the diagnosis they itself or because of the people and the environment they are in.Ive also found that ( for example it seems those whom don't exhibit a tendency to be violent when younger are more likely to have a tendency to bullied which seems to be an ongoing pattern also in the workplace).So its a double edged sword.I know people say you shouldn't generalise but data and statistics are facts.This is why I find it of such concern.Its a very competitive world and very commercialised.

Jane315STARX

I think the positives I would take from what you've said is that they sound incredibly bright.They could quite easily have the foundations to have their own businesses.Which would allow them to focus solely on their purpose,drive them.to succeed and eliminate the hassle of working with or for people.I appreciate that this is a long way down the line.But it could be a goal/option.As for everyone this is not even on the table in terms of what they have in their tank

Jane315STARX

My son on the other hand has little hope as ive said before.Im very realistic about this.I know this sounds very pessimistic but the sooner people open up to reality.The sooner the chances any option of something can be done ( in my opinion anyway).Obviously I can be wrong,which I sometimes am,but its just my thinking.