Should troops be taught about misogyny?

Biblioklept

Trying to find something to watch (why is daytime tv so rubbish??) and caught the end of a debate on whether we should be teaching soldiers about misogyny

All the people calling in seem to be happy with it, but one said they should be allowed to sort themselves out.

The argument being that we should leave people to 'self police' themselves 🤔

What does everyone think???

66Mustang

My dad (when he was a copper) once looked at transferring onto a job that involved being attached to the army and essentially investigating / rooting out people who had violated certain rules

One of the things he was warned about is that a lot of the public are uncooperative and negative toward any criticism of the army. He was told to prepare for a lot of unpleasant behaviour from typically respectable people when gathering evidence or asking to interview people

What I'm saying is, we do have one of the best trained & respectful armies in the world, but the argument "they're already perfect, leave them alone" doesn't work because the reason any organisation is respectable is because they keep on top of stuff, root out the bad bits early on, and don't get complacent

WhatThe

Should troops be taught about misogyny?

From infant school? Yes. Through primary school and secondary school? Yes.

OverlyAnxious

I find it a bit sad that anyone needs to be taught about misogyny, or any form of equality really. Are most men born naturally misogynistic? Is it part of the competitive side that comes from testosterone? Or is it something they're learning from parents and relatives?

Not sure if any of you watched Children in Need on Friday. One of the causes that money had previously been spent on was a class for teenagers about misogyny. One of them spoke about how they'd seen negative social media posts about women and believed them to be true. (Presumably from AT and similar). I honestly had no idea this was even a thing in the modern world, but it seems to be getting worse, rather than better.

For what it's worth, I grew up around a lot of women, and never thought of them as any less or any different. But I did note the amount of bias they had against other traits. So it seems to be a human thing to be judging each other and trying to 'one-up' constantly? Though I fully appreciate that in general, men pose more of a physical risk to women than the other way round.

When it comes to forces I think there's a contradiction here. How do we teach someone to kill another human while also teaching them that every human is equal?

Chris75_

Believe me, a lot of the young men who enlist, particularly in the infantry; they are very right wing and misogynistic. That is a fact.

I was Army Reserve for many years, and I found the racism and misogyny quite shocking. Anecdotal, but the Household Division were the worst.

An example of casual racism? Calling the local people 'go**ies. Sexism? Referring to woman as spl*t ars*s.

66Mustang

@Chris75_

I think both sexes should be taught to respect each other

Lots of men are sexist but as someone with gender dysphoria issues much of my mental health & suicidal behaviours were caused by society telling me I'm a horrible person because of my gender

Anyone who points a finger at someone (who doesn't identify with any gender and sees people as individuals and doesn't care about gender) saying "YOU'RE A FILTHY PERSON" till they want to kill themselves is as deplorable than the misogynists from the 60s, or even the ones who went round the world in boats and wore helmets with horns in them 😆

66Mustang

@OverlyAnxious

I'm glad someone seems to get it

Growing up & at school the language and attitudes among boys were bad but it's hard – as someone who doesn't care about or even consider gender when deciding what I think of someone – to be lumped in with that group

Isn't telling someone they're horrible because of their gender precisely what a sexist person does?

jonf

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1083717#Comment_1083717

you should hear what the women call the guys. I served for 28 years

66Mustang

@jonf

It's reassuring to see some people with equal empathy

It's horrible what the men call the women and makes me truly uncomfortable, and the men who say those things deserve all the retaliatory abuse they get from women (and other men)

However as someone who has never held those attitudes or used language like that, I don't understand why I deserve to be attacked in the same way – I spent my life being gaslighted into thinking I'm subconsciously some kind of evil person or a misogynist without realising and it took me a lot of therapy to realise I'm not

I think it's silly to gaslight potential allies – people who just want to advocate for "human rights" instead of "men's rights" or "women's rights" – into thinking they're the enemy or a horrible person

jonf

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1083824#Comment_1083824

we all have a heart

We all have feelings

I would never stand for it from either sex.

66Mustang

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1083846#Comment_1083846

Maybe off-topic but a bit apt I think – r.e. about sexism toward the same sex

I often noticed that the "men are bad" is often echoed by other men, and hypothesised that it's due to them indulging the male competitive/primal gene to try to present themselves as superior to men who struggle with the counterdiscrimination

I read recently of in the USA of a landmark case - & that the law (now officially) considers it possible to be sexist toward someone of the same sex. There was a case where a woman employee was reprimanded by her female manager for wearing trousers and not a skirt. The manager claimed it wasn't sexist as she's a woman too. The court ruled that she was guilty

Chris75_

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1083795#Comment_1083795

I don't even want to think about it!

WhatThe

🤭