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New UC claim

BrutonStreetTailor

Hi, ive been getting New style ESA for almost 2 months now, Ive just been awarded the enhanced amount following my paper based and 2 phone assessments as limited capacity for work and work related activity, however my years contractural sick pay from my employer has just ended as i got a years full sick pay from them 9 I have been off all year) , i have a couple of questions. I am due 1 more payday from my firm at the end of December, it will be about 14 days pay, but, it might be a lot more as they have said i am owed a further 29 days holiday pay which i have accrued this year whilst off sick for the full year, which will add up to a considerable amount. The only thing is, those extra holidays may not be paid until January now as it may be too late for them to include in Decembers pay, They are meeting with me in January to possibly dismiss me after being with them for 38 years due to my physical disability and inability to do my job or any job. shall i start my UC claim now and submit it after i see what amount I get at the end of December, Or wait until the end of January ? Im concerned about waiting as Ive heard the UC payments are getting reduced by half for claimants being awarded after next April. Though if ive read the website advice correctly, when my UC claim is accepted, If I get the owed holiday pay in January, my UC claim will still count- though I may not receive any benefit that month, but it will automatically start the following month ? also. is it correct that my New style ESA will cease ? ive read it will reduce my amount of UC ? so If i do it too early I may lose out on ESA payments. Im worried if I claim UC and lose the New Style ESA then i will be worse off than I am now? Another thing is I got back payments of new style ESA, which i still have in my current account, Do, or can I deduct that amount when i submit to them the details of how much capital i have in my accounts, or do they count that as part of my savings ? which are below 16k and will drop rapidly when i no longer have an income from work as I have direct debits of over £1100.00 a month now, regards. Paul.

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Kimi87

Are you able to edit or re post in paragraphs?

It's very difficult to read.

BrutonStreetTailor

Sorry, I realise there were a number of questions after a brief description of my position. there so ive broken it up to try and make it easier to follow.

I am due 1 more payday from my firm at the end of December, it will be about 14 days pay, but, it might be a lot more as they have said i am owed a further 29 days holiday pay which i have accrued this year whilst off sick for the full year, which will add up to a considerable amount. The only thing is, those extra holidays may not be paid until January now as it may be too late for them to include in Decembers pay.

So what i want to know is, Shall i start my UC claim now and submit it after i see what amount I get at the end of December, Or wait until the end of January in case my firm pays me my owed holiday pay then ? Im concerned about waiting as Ive heard the UC payments are getting reduced by half for claimants being awarded after next April.

Is it correct that my New style ESA will cease as soon as i get my award for UC ? ive read it will reduce my amount of UC ? so If i do it too early I may lose out on ESA payments now. Im worried if I claim UC and lose the New Style ESA then i will be worse off than I am now? Another thing is I got back payments of new style ESA, which i still have in my current account.

When i submit to them the details of how much capital i have in my accounts, do the backdated lump sum of ESA I received count as part of my savings ? which are below 16k and will drop rapidly when i no longer have an income from work as I have direct debits of over £1100.00 a month now, i hope this is more understandable, regards. Paul.

chiarieds

Hi @BrutonStreetTailor - it seems like you've been placed in the 'Support Group' with your recent ESA claim. You can check if this is the case if you get £281.10 each fortnight.

If you claim UC, then you should be put into the equivalent for this support group, & be paid the LCWRA element, or part, of UC.

It does seem confusing, but your New Style ESA claim continues to be paid every fortnight, tho it's deducted in full from UC. As UC is paid monthly, you'd see a deduction of £609.05 a month of your ESA; you get it, but it's deducted from the amount you receive with UC. The £609.05 amount a month is worked out by dividing this £281.10 by 2, then multiply this weekly amount by 52, & dividing by 12.

When you initiate a claim for UC, all of your savings & monies are counted, whether in banks, building societies, etc. As you know, this applies to both you & your wife, as this will be a joint claim. There's some info here as to how these impact with a UC claim: https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/what-youll-get

If you knew the amount of monies you'd receive from your former employer, then that would help. Perhaps you can however do a 'guesstimate,' putting in what you think here in the Turn2Us benefits calculator: https://benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/?_ga=2.33325438.1782402900.1733732365-1147812920.1718708676

If you have over £16k 'savings' between you, then you can't claim UC.

This might possibly be relevant with a potential UC claim - if your wife provides care for you (at least 35 hours a week) & you are in receipt of either rate of the PIP daily living component, then you may be eligible for the Carer's element of UC, which is an additional amount you may be able to receive of just over £200 a month. This is mentioned in the first link I gave above.

Sorry, I feel you already know a lot of this, but 'hope' some of this may have helped a little.

Please come back if you have other questions, Paul.

Trevor_PIP

@BrutonStreetTailor thought it worth mentioning with 38 years of service, if the company give you early retirement due to ill health and you take your pension that normally comes with lump sum, that will cancel out UC and affect what you get from NS ESA. I can't comment any further as no experience of the benefits you are claiming, but the reduction by a half for LCWRA after April 26, which you mention, affects only new claimants after that date. You have already been awarded it.

chiarieds

They are asking if they should start a UC claim, not said they are in receipt of UC?

Trevor_PIP

Point, but I thought it best to mention what I have as the OP is worried about the extra pay due from the company and if he should start his claim. Throw the pension in and you are in a pickle.

BrutonStreetTailor

Hi, Thank You for your time in replying, so firstly, I have a pip claim that has been submitted since September, but as of today all I have received is a text saying they have my claim and are reviewing it and I do not need to do any more, however, i have rung both the helpline and the 3rd party contractor that is reviewing my claim, and they were not very helpful at all, they have no idea when my assessment will be, in fact they "know nothing and thats just the procedure" They couldnt even tell me what month next year I could expect it.

I am aware of the carers allowance, at the moment, as I am only in receipt of New style ESA, that will have to wait.

I am aware of the disqualification of entitlement to start a claim for UC, should my savings rise above 16k. but there is no danger of that, i am also aware that any claim I make will Include that of my wife, who works part time, for just 10 hours a week, so she pays no tax or Ni on her earnings.

My savings, will be above 6k at the time I receive my final pay, though I have a credit card debt of around 3k so I understand I can reduce that to £0.00 to "reduce" my total savings amount. I have no intention, unless i am forced to, to take my companies pension, I may add. Im thinking medical retirement and length of service award, should I leave, possibly would take my savings to over 16k, but as i believe my condition to be caused by my work - over time, i am going to ask them to keep me " employed" by them, but with no expectation of salary, in case any surgery is possible next year to restore my health and return to work (however unlikely). Im not sure what their response will be, they are finding options for me and will advise in January.

Will the backdated ESA monies count as part of my savings, as that is around 2K on its own ?. Also, I read that there is a "work allowance" with UC that one can earn before any deductions, I myself am unable to work, so will this apply to my wifes income for the calculation, - her earnings are under £500 a month.

so to summarise, if I understand correctly as I cannot survive financially on New style Esa, I can safely wait until I am paid all monies from my company, whether that will be December, or January, as I think you are saying I have already had my capability for work assessments and been accepted and awarded lcwra , so I dont have to worry about any changes in April, I have automatically been accepted by the criteria for Uc by the checks already been done on me, its just a case of me creating the account and submitting a claim for UC and the DWP working out the value of any award the make.

Sorry for so many questions, this is a right mess, as well as dealing with my physical disabilities, I do not know what to do for the best, as all these potential decisions appear to have impacts on everything else. kind regards.

chiarieds

Hi again @BrutonStreetTailor - sorry, have had a busy day in looking after my son's dog, whilst at the same time my daughter wanted my input on a medical trial she's been invited to participate in to help many other people, not herself. I needed to take the time to reply to my daughter about this as best I could.

I was aware that you'd claimed PIP, but didn't know if you'd received an outcome; sadly it all takes time, & no-one can give a timescale as to when you might have an assessment.

I think you may be talking about what is termed 'deprivation of capital' (in order to receive a benefit). So if you have debts of £3k which need to be paid off that may be OK.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'backdated monies of ESA.'

Altho if you claim UC, & with being in the 'Support group' for ESA, which should mean you'd be placed in the UC equivalent group of LCWRA, we can't say anything about that you'll be 'automatically' accepted for UC, as there are so many variables that you've mentioned, including your finances at the time of any future claim.

I'm sorry that I don't know more to help you, but believe we're entering into murky waters with all the what 'ifs.' I'm also a tad disconcerted by some of what you say. I wish you all the best, but if you claim UC, then your circumstances may be up to a Decision Maker.

Trevor_PIP

PIP all this year especially, are dealing with an unprecedented number of claims, hundreds of thousands, and as said even the DWP cannot give a timescale, it's not that they are not being helpful. The PIP system is clogged up with backlogs. Some claimants have a fairly quick turnaround and the rest can wait months to a year for their Review. That's if you are awarded. If not, the full process to Tribunal can be two years. One member recently from applying for PIP to getting her Tribunal was nearly three years (on this forum)

I think you will find Medical Retirement does include taking your private pension early.

I too feel you may have issues claiming, but best of luck!

BrutonStreetTailor

Hi, no need for any apologies, ok, again many thanks for taking the time for replying, just to clear things up, the backdated monies for my Contribution based “ New style ESA” is what was paid to me a couple of weeks ago, and consisted of a backdated element of the limited lcwra, i.e, when i first claimed it, after my ssp ran out in July. I was put on the basic rate for ESA whilst I was considered, after my interviews, it was clear that I was indeed lcwra, so I then got put on the higher amount. Obviously, I was physically lcwra from the date I applied, so the DWP backdated the ESA amount to the higher rate I was entitled to. Hence the lump sum payment. I have read that they exclude lump sum backdated payments from situations such as mine or pip backpayments, for a period of 1 year after you receive them. I am only 59, and had no plans to retire, therefore I would like to keep my pension sitting there for as long as I can, as even without the contributions from my employer and myself, it would gain in value, as to take it now would be a considerable drop 6 years earlier than its original intended date. Also, as pointed out, it would affect any UC award if I were to take it. Obviously, I need a decent income, so although pip is not guaranteed and the time frame could be considerable regarding the wait. I need that UC income in order to survive as I said previously, my lifestyle has considerable outgoings, monthly bills I mean, I dont take foreign holidays etc, , for example my gas and electric last month was just under £350:00 and will be the same this month Housing is not an issue, as my mother-in -law kindly gave her daughter the balance of what was left on the mortgage. Kind regards.

chiarieds

As far as I'm aware, I don't think the backpayments you mention will be considered if you apply for UC. It's normal that you receive the assessment rate of ESA initially, & whilst you're being assessed, then, if placed in the Support group, you'll receive more (& any difference, or 'backpayment' will then be paid).

I think whilst you refer to 'backpayments' as a term that is used when working out the correct rate of any benefit for a claimant, it doesn't have the same sense in which you seem to be referring, but thank you for explaining further.

Kindly stay in touch letting us all know how you get on.

Trevor_PIP

What I can't understand here, you say your work has caused your major disability. Is there a case for compensation here? I would have thought the company would at least be looking after you. It would be nothing for the company to offer an early retirement deal where you would not lose anything off your pension taking it early. The company I worked for did that from 62 to 65 years old just by having 40 years service in. So if you left at 60 you would only lose a fraction from 60 to 62. Keeping you on the books as employed?

Your company could easily make sure you are in a better position financially by sorting out your pension and offering a one off sum of money, not leaving you in a stressful state trying to claim benefits, on top of your issues with your disability. Are you in a Union?

BrutonStreetTailor

Once again thank you for your time, knowledge and input, The firm are denying it could even be a possibility my condition could be related to my work, and have intimated, unofficially, that they think i was born with these conditions - ( complete non-sense), some of which I am still under investigations for to determine the cause. Initially because of the delays and lack of appointments in the NHS to get me appointments, I requested they send me for private assessment but they denied this, presumably that would/could of been seen as an admission. (every medical professional I have seen has said in conversation it is due to the kind of work I did).

I am in a union. Their OH report has found me disabled and written to them giving me 2010 disability protection though. The issue I have is I did not have a specific accident or incident on a particular day, so they refused to register it as an industrial injury or occupational injury when I requested them to do so. I do'nt think my condition and looking after me is on their radar tbh.

I may be wrong but I understood the benefit cap would not apply to myself due to my multiple conditions and current state of award? Kind Regards.

Trevor_PIP

I am dismayed at how you have been treated. Thinking out loud, have you tried a personal injuries lawyer for advice? There are no win, no fee companies. I understand an accident date is usually required but yours is a different case. It's a pity the medical profession could not put words into writing also.

On benefits - you could call who are recommended by members for benefit advice - https://advicefinder.turn2us.org.uk/

Kimi87

Higher rate of ESA is backdated to week 13 once awarded.

I agree that meets the criteria of backpayment.

When you apply for UC you declare your total capital, then there is a section to list any money to be disregarded for 12 months from the date of receipt including benefit backpay.

The money would not be disregarded if your total capital at any point afterwards dropped below the amount you got.

You are correct, once on UC with LCWRA the benefit cap doesn't apply to your household.

Trevor_PIP

Thanks @Kimi87 - last sentence.

BrutonStreetTailor

Many thanks, that clears up and confirms a few things, I do in fact have a letter from my surgeon intimating that i have developed my condition, and he has indeed tacitly connected this or noted that it could of been brought about due to the nature of my work, but this was'nt a visit i made to him to investigate or confirm that specifically. It was just a visit to assess my suitability for surgery to repair my hernias. My union has a legal department, so I would go through them, but ive been advised by my rep it will be complicated and expensive, which even they may be reluctant to take to its conclusion. (which I found hard to fathom) I have a comprehensive household insurance. but even that is limited to 100k. Im also aware of the 3 year rule, so I have a bit of time before I have to make a decision. Will just have to see what transpires. regards.

Trevor_PIP

@BrutonStreetTailor Thank you for the detailed response, you have my sympathies. I can't add anymore, wish I could, but I will follow this thread. Hopefully your PIP claim will start shortly. Best wishes for the future.