Universal Credit - overpayment query?
Hi,
Please advise. My mum lives in a 3 bedroom council house which she moved into in 2020. She worked full time until 2020 when she had to give up working due to poor health and sell our home. She has been disabled since childhood and receives high rate care and mobility PIP. She also receives Universal Credit with housing element, however her amount is significantly reduced as she is in the LCWRA group for (contribution based) ESA and has full NI contributions. She really struggles to live on what she gets. I am in my early 30s and lived with my mum until 2023, when I moved into my own home with a mortgage and a partner. I was previously receiving income based ESA and PIP due to ill health. I have never received UC. I informed the DWP of my change of circumstances on the same day I completed on my house to close my ESA claim and change my address. Still living with my mum is my brother, who is in his late 20s. He works full time, however he also receives high rate mobility PIP as he is severely sight impaired. My former bedroom is now used for overnight care for my mum and allows family to stay. Universal Credit have sent my mum a letter informing her that apparently she has been overpaid almost £1500 including a £50 civil penalty from July 2023 to May 2025 due to her “not informing them straight away that I had moved out” despite me calling them on the day I completed on my house to remove myself from the household and change my address?! Is this correct? They are implying that my mum should have called on the same day to repeat the same exact information they had just been given?! Surely it goes into some central database where they can see quite clearly that no fraud was committed and that they were informed on the day I completed on my home that I was no longer a member of that household? My mum has never claimed benefits until 2020 and has a full NI record from working since age 16. She is absolutely distraught. I don’t understand how this has happened as I removed myself from her household? Surely myself leaving the household means that she could have been underpaid rather than overpaid? Isn’t there a rule about PIP/ESA and non-dependant adults? Has there been an oversight? An error? Can we challenge this? Can someone please clarify this mess? We are devastated! Thank you in advance.
Comments
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Hi,
Your ESA claim is completely separate from your Mums UC claim. It is correct that she should have updated her own claim on the day you moved out. There is no central database for ESA and UC. If she has to make any changes in future, she must report those to both ESA and UC separately herself while on both benefits.
Edited: I missed that your Mum receives Enhanced Daily PIP the first time I read this thread. For that reason, there should not be any non-dependant deductions made to her Housing Element. The overpayment should be challenged using a Mandatory Reconsideration.
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Is it possible that my mum’s housing element has been incorrectly calculated the entire time?
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I don’t believe this is related to non-dependant deductions. It appears to be because they believe the bedroom tax should have been applied. Your mum was living in a three-bedroom council house but was only occupying two bedrooms after you moved out, unless she had informed them of the need for an overnight carer and this had been assessed and authorised.
If she did not report that you had moved out and apply for the additional bedroom on the basis that it was required for overnight care, then she would not have been assessed as entitled to an extra bedroom, and the bedroom tax should have applied.
It would be helpful if your mum could check her UC journal to see whether there is any evidence that she reported the need for overnight care, or any related information, to them.
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Ok thank you for your help. Do you think that these dates line up with bedroom tax rules? In the letter they seem to be finding issue with her “not informing them that I had left the household straightaway” (we did) - which is what made me think it was a “non-dependent” issue, rather than an “extra bedroom” issue? I don’t know where to start to begin clarification on this. Should she just apply for a mandatory reconsideration? Ask them for a breakdown of the calculation? On what basis would you advise we do this? Many thanks again for the help.
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Your Mum didn't tell UC about the change to her own claim. That is the error that she made and UC are correct about that.
You told a totally different department (ESA) that you had moved. That change won't have been linked to her UC claim at all.
The question is whether she was paid extra money for you still being there after you'd moved out. I think I confused myself with non-dependent deductions and bedroom tax earlier. It is the spare bedroom that's the problem here. I wrongly stated that PIP DL would avoid that in my confusion, but that is not the case unless regular overnight care has been agreed with UC first. Ironically, that is what I posted initially before editing it. (Shouldn't have doubted myself lol).
So basically the best option now is to prove that your Mum needs regular overnight care, and has done ever since you moved out.
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But obviously she genuinely didn’t realise that she had to tell them about my moving out as I had already told DWP myself on the day I moved out? Plus, she is severely disabled? Surely anyone can see that she has not in any way benefitted financially or tried to conceal any information because I willingly told them the information myself without waiting a single day? I think that this is incredibly harsh and unfair. My mum receives the highest amount of PIP points for both daily care and mobility and has LCWRA. Is there any chance that UC will see reason here?
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I know this will sound harsh but unfortunately she has benefited financially as she should have been losing 14% of Housing Element due to the spare bedroom. That does count as fraud, regardless of whether she realised it or not.
You keep saying you told 'them', but UC are a completely separate department to ESA, and your claim was completely separate from your Mums as you are of working age.
UC did not know that your Mum gained a spare bedroom, and for that reason she has been overpaid since you moved out.
There is no 'reason' for UC to see. If your Mum did not have regular overnight care accepted by UC from the moment you moved out then she has been getting money that she was not entitled to. It is now up to you or her to prove that she did need regular overnight care, and as such would not have to pay the bedroom tax.
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But she does need regular overnight and daily care? She has limited mobility and almost no dexterity in her fingers. She has 2 partially collapsed lungs and all of her joints are compromised. She has had a shoulder replacement in one arm and her other arm is fused. She is honestly, devastated. She did not know.
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I think the issue here is that not knowing is not a defence.
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With all due respect, this really isn’t helpful at all.
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Plead ypur case and see if anythjng can be done. These oversight errors do occur. It is not a case of knowingly defrauding. It will all be okay. Comfort and assure your Mum.
Just a blip that will pass. If she was overpaid then it can be paid back. Best wishes.
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Thank you very much. I appreciate the supportive comment during a very difficult time.
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It can help to know that under UC rules the DWP can recover an overpayment even if it was caused by their own official error. This is different to legacy benefits and is unfortunately specifically written into UC legislation meaning all overpayments are recoverable. They usually do this by deducting up to around 15 % of a claimants standard allowance each month, and they must leave claimants with at least 1p.
If your mum is struggling financially or the overpayment wasn’t her fault, she can ask them not to recover it (a waiver or 'discretion not to recover'), though it is important to note this is extremely rare and they don’t grant waivers often.
She also has the right to dispute the decision with a Mandatory Reconsideration and appeal if needed. Particularly if she's made them aware of her PIP award or potential for needing overnight care.
I hope your mum will find it reassuring to know that the £1500 won't need to be repaid all at once, she should be able to set up a plan with them. The £50 civil penalty is usually expected as an immediate payment.
I did want to ask about the sale of her house though, did this leave your mum with more than £16,000 in savings or capital?
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Thank you for this info. No, the sale of the house left her with substantially less than that, and what little she had is long gone.
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