Holiday abroad with appointee lcwra

rita444

Hello everyone

Im the appointee for my daughter

She's on pip UC Lcwra .She's got mild autism and schizophrenia she is on medication and stable.

We have got the opportunity of going to visit my mother her nana in Spain she moved over there a year ago .

We would be only going for 6 days she cannot travel alone as didn't do unfamiliar journeys. I will be with her all the time and a friend is also coming to give support .she will be supported throughout the whole trip . My question is do I notify UC as a change of circumstances . I keep getting conflicting advice also I'm worried in case this triggers an assesment

Iv read on some Facebook sites that there passport is flagged with DWP .And they would no you have gone abroad . I just want to do the right thing .Do I let them know or not .thankyou

Holly_Scope

Hi @rita444 you're ok to travel abroad but they do recommend informing DWP. When you say change of circumstances, is this around travel and their capacity to?

SheffieldMan1976

Ah yes, Facebook, the online Home of the terminally stupid, they'll tell you almost anything for clicks, most of which is a load of bobbins.

Emilee

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1127077#Comment_1127077

That's not very kind, even on Facebook most people are trying to help. It's just important to confirm information gotten on social media elsewhere, as they're not always correct.

SheffieldMan1976

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1127080#Comment_1127080

And that was my point.

justsaying2025

Yes, you are required to let them know of time abroad. If she has an online account it's very easy to do on there. Not really a change of circumstances as such, just advisory. If they don't have an online account you can call the helpline and the agent will be able to action it on your behalf.

rita444

Hi @Holly_Scope

It's just about travel I'm going with her too I'm just asking if I need to inform UC that's she's traveling abroad I no you have to put it in a change of circumstances on her UC online . To say she's leaving UK I'm just asking if I need to inform UC if she goes abroad thanks

chiarieds

Hi @rita444 - you don't need to inform UC as your daughter's appointee for such a short holiday abroad as you can in fact be away from the UK for up to a month. Whatever anyone says elsewhere, including the DWP, what matters are the Social Security Regulations about this that the DWP have to rely upon.

Please see Regulation 11.1 below:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/11

You do not need to report a Change of Circumstances either as your daughter's health condition hasn't changed.

My friend, who is also her daughter's appointee, & who happens to also know an awful lot about benefits, goes abroad with her daughter for 10 -14 days a year, & knows she doesn't need inform UC due to this regulation. Hope this helps, & you can enjoy your holiday together in Spain.

ashmere

Hi @chiarieds.

I recently queried this with DWP and quoted Regulation 11. They said it only covers whether a temporary absence is disregarded for the ‘in Great Britain’ condition for entitlement, and doesn’t confirm that there is no requirement to report it. Do you have any official guidance or regulation that states short absences under 1 month do not need to be reported, as that would seem to contradict what DWP have said? Many thanks.

chiarieds

Hi @ashmere - so long as someone is already claiming UC before such a holiday, then you are allowed to be 'absent' from the UK for up to one month without it affecting your claim. As the OP's daughter receives the LCWRA element, then they will have no work committments, so there's no problem.

With PIP you can go abroad for up to 13 weeks at any one time. With both PIP & LCWRA, so long as these respective time periods are not exceeded, you can go abroad several times a year.

The important thing is that the DWP may 'say' you need to do something, but they have to abide by what has been put into law with these regulations. Unfortunately when you ring 'UC' or 'PIP' you are speaking to a call handler often without any benefits knowledge.

My friend that I mention is poppy123456, whom I think you will have previously seen giving great benefits advice on the forum. As mentioned, she's her daughter's appointee, & her daughter receives LCWRA. They both receive PIP, & her daughter is also autistic.

The day you leave, & also return to the UK don't count as you cannot be deemed then temporarily 'absent' from the UK as you're there for part of a day.

With PIP, this regulation applies: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/377/regulation/17/made

You can of course notify the DWP, but just that, remembering to notify the date of your return, but, altho the gov.uk. website lists this as a change of circumstances, this is misleading, & could cause problems.

See also: https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/19390 a forum for Welfare Rights officers, etc.

ashmere

Thanks @chiarieds.

The advice I received was actually in writing from a UC case manager regarding someone already receiving UC with the LCWRA element. They explicitly said that Regulation 11 relates to maintaining entitlement while temporarily absent from Great Britain, but that all travel abroad must still be reported to UC, even where the absence is for less than one month. 

They also stressed this still applies even where the claimant has LCWRA and no work-related commitments. So I’m not sure it’s accurate to describe the GOV.UK guidance as “misleading”, as it appears consistent with what UC themselves are advising claimants to do administratively.

justsaying2025

Hi Rita, just wanted to reach out & hopefully clarify & reassure.

You are required to let UC know (online account/home page/report a change/travel outside the UK). It's not a change of circumstances (COC) as such, just a requirement to let them know.

Nothing will happen, nothing will change. However, you've done what is required of you and then you can enjoy your holiday stress free. No drama or worry.

I hope you have a lovely time :-)

Bluebell21

Hi @easybreezypea please read this thread it will give you the answer to your recent thread.

Take care and enjoy your holiday in June.

chiarieds

Hi @ashmere - I appreciate that this discussion will divide people, as it does on other forums!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6542478/going-abroad-and-uc read both pages. As you can see reporting a holiday has unfortunately caused some problems.

There's absolutely nothing in regulation 11.1 quoted above that says you have to report a temporary absence from the UK of no longer than a month.

''A person's temporary absence from Great Britain is disregarded in determining whether they meet the basic condition to be in Great Britain if—

(a)the person is entitled to universal credit immediately before the beginning of the period of temporary absence; and

(i)the absence is not expected to exceed, and does not exceed, one month''

Case managers don't always interpret the regulations correctly….It is however up to the OP to do (or not) whatever they feel most comfortable with.

ashmere

Hi @chiarieds.

Thanks, I do understand the point you’re making about Regulation 11 and entitlement. My only point was that the regulation itself appears silent on reporting requirements either way. The written advice I received from UC was that all travel abroad must still be reported administratively, even where the absence is under one month and even where the claimant has LCWRA with no work commitments.

So while Regulation 11 may protect entitlement during a temporary absence, I’m not convinced that automatically means there is no obligation to notify UC. That seems to be a separate issue from the entitlement rules themselves.

chiarieds

I think that's just the point @ashmere - regulation 11 doesn't say you have to report a temporary absence of this nature, nor does it say you don't have to. If you can point me to where it says you 'have' to report this, I'll happily say I'm wrong. Legislature needs to be clear, & it doesn't say you have to report this.; if you had to, that would be clearly stated.

Much tho I respect poppy123456 as both a great benefits advisor, as well as my friend, I always used to check things out myself even tho I was sure she would be right, as that's the way I happen to learn.

Not much more I can add, other than that even the DWP's Advice for Decision Makers (ADM) simply relies on the same regulations with no proviso that that have they have to be informed. It's a long way to scroll down, but it's at C1986: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/693ac62a33c7ace9c4a42029/adm-c1.pdf

ashmere

Thanks @chiarieds. My point was only that UC are advising claimants administratively that all travel abroad should be reported, including in LCWRA cases with no work commitments, and GOV.UK reflects that same position.

So I wasn’t really saying the legislation clearly creates a reporting duty, more that I’d personally be cautious about disregarding direct written advice from UC simply because the regulations are silent on the point. Equally, while the regulations and ADM don’t explicitly say a short absence must be reported, they also don’t explicitly say there is no need to report it either.

chiarieds

I think a competent Welfare Rights Officer would run rings around the DWP on this one. Perhaps that would be where to get a professional opinion.

Sorry to say that on occasion I have found the gov.uk website inaccurate at times, which I've reported. The NHS website isn't always accurate either.

I also appreciate where you're coming from, but the regulations & ADM don't indicate anywhere that this needs to be reported. It's not said, because it isn't in the regs.

ashmere

@chiarieds

I understand your reasoning. My only point is that the regulations do not expressly require reporting is not quite the same thing as there is definitely no requirement to report.

Regulation 11 clearly deals with entitlement during temporary absence, but it does not explicitly address notification either way. So I do not think the absence of wording in Regulation 11 conclusively proves that reporting is unnecessary.

That is why I was drawing a distinction between: the legal test for continuing entitlement and DWP administrative/reporting expectations.

I agree GOV.UK guidance is not legislation, and websites can sometimes be inaccurate, but at the moment the published guidance does still say claimants should inform UC before travelling abroad.

chiarieds

Hi @ashmere - I hope we can politely agree to disagree. The 'published guidance' is what the DWP say, not what is in the regs. Again I'd suggest trying to find a Welfare Rights Office that may better assist than I.

ashmere

Good morning @chiarieds.

Thanks, and yes, I’m very happy to agree to disagree on it politely.

I do completely understand your point about guidance not being the same as legislation, and I agree Regulation 11 clearly protects entitlement during a temporary absence abroad of up to one month.

My only hesitation was about the separate issue of notification. I personally just feel cautious about saying people definitely do not need to report travel abroad when I cannot find anything that expressly says notification is unnecessary, while the current guidance does still advise informing UC.

I suppose I also wonder what the consequences would actually be if someone chose not to report a short trip abroad and UC later became aware of it, although equally I do not know in practical terms how they would usually find out about a brief holiday.

But I appreciate the discussion and can see where you’re coming from.