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blooming pip what they playing at?

jjdd70
jjdd70 Member Posts: 66 Courageous
edited January 2017 in PIP, DLA, and AA
hi all my husband had a first pip assessment which the nurse lied about everything and he never got his untiltilment so we wrote to the ICE and informed them about the lies the nurse said for e.g. nurse said examination done but i was witness and no exam was not done, so now we have another fresh assessment with the thing was his first assessment was done at there office thing and when we got the descion back we asked for mandotary reconsideration they told us they believed the assessor was correct in not awarding anything so we wrote in for appeals but in the mean time we wrote to atos about how the first assessment was totally wrong because she said she done a examination on him but i was in the room and no examination was not done ,so we complained to atos and the independent case examiner about the first assessement which was totally false my husband is under the mental health services for his long term illness stress etc so was wondering if this was normal procedure if they found the assessors to have lied about first assessment
the report then was looked at by cmsa they wrote back saying too many inconsisitneces with the nurses report and they believed the assessor did not look at my husbands doctors specialist reports total  lies,
now atos had been told by dwp to make a new fresh assessment which they had made a home visit appointment for 4th january 2017 the appointment was from 9am to 11am but at 10:56 they rang up to cancel no excuses we rang to ask why?
to be told basically nothing, they then arranged a second appointment for 31 january again they rang to cancel appointment no excuses has to why?
rang to be told there is a board meeting on friday and my husbands case was involved in that meeting,
what the hell is going on i need counselling after this.
so we have been told that dwp asked for extension to appeals so they allowed them until the 4th feb 2017 and what happens now I'm not knowing getting rather peed off  
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Comments

  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,628 Pioneering
    hi jjdd70,

    So it sounds as if you have a complaint that now has more to be added to it, and you also have an outstanding appeal that hasn't been heard yet? And presumably the extension is to allow a further assessment to be done before the appeal hearing?

    I think the main thing you need to do as a next step is to add the cancellations to your complaint. As you've already been via the independent case examiner, it might be appropriate to ask them whether at this stage, with your complaint not only not resolved but things having got worse, you should go and see your MP about taking a complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman. In any case, I'm sure your MP would want to know about the problems your husband has been having.

    Meanwhile, in respect of the appeal, if you can get a CAB to help you prepare a submission and if possible represent you, that will help a lot. All the problems you've had along the way should be explained in the submission, as well, of course, as medical evidence showing that your husband meets the relevant descriptors and should get points in the activities affected by his condition(s).

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70
    jjdd70 Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    hi thanks for reply I've contacted the case complaints manager at dwp today and they have said that atos now need to send the file back to them so they can deal with it also the manager said the first assessments report which has been found to have many inconsistencies  is not even fit for has they call in the business fit for purpose, thats his exact words on the file 
  • jjdd70
    jjdd70 Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    hi all just a update well the dwp case manager has rang atos and asked for the paper work back because they are taking too long and it is said they are not taking the complaint seriously and normal procedure now it that the paper work is sent from atos to dwp complaints manager which it has been done so today,
    i got a call from the case manager saying ill get a copy of atos report about why the made 2 home assessment visits and why they cancelled them, the case manager says the report they have done is not fit for purpose lol so I'm guessing this is in our favour if dwp says the report is not fit for any purpose,
    and he said are you willing to go ahead with appeals to which i answered yes we are, he just said we will get a copy of what atos have said and so does the tribunal so its a waiting game now what happens now do we just wait for the date or can sometimes dwp change the outcome of original decision before it even goes to tribunal
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,628 Pioneering
    Hi jjdd70

    From what you've been told it sounds to me like the DWP are preparing their submission to the tribunal. If that's the case then in the coming weeks you can expect to receive the appeal papers which will contain all of the evidence the DWP have used in making the decision.

    The DWP are able to change a decision before an appeal is heard by a tribunal, right up to the last minute before a tribunal starts but sadly, in my view, this doesn't happen nearly as often as it should.

    If you are able to obtain and submit medical evidence showing that your husband meets the relevant descriptors you will increase the chances of the DWP changing the decision before it's heard by a  tribunal.

    Best wishes

    Paul
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70
    jjdd70 Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    Hi there they all have up to date letters from go like first assessment said she believed my husband could read and write and therefore he could take own medication we have comfirmation letters from go stating my husband can not read and write and therefore someone has to give medication to him,also gap comfirms my husband is under mental health services for stress and anxiety for trying to cope with his long term disability go has comfirmed all things that assesser lied about so all papers are in already and we also sent copy's to tribal Neal so they have them all,even though dip has rang at is for papers ready for submission we still had phone calls today from autos asking if we would like to attend another assessment but we have refused because the case manager at dip said not to bother because they have not followed protocol for the complaint
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,628 Pioneering
    Hi jjdd70

    It sounds like things are moving ahead here, but it's not clear if there's anything you'd like us to answer. If there is please post again with your question(s).

    David
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70
    jjdd70 Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    with outcome like ours is it possible that they could do the decision before it hits tribunal with all the evidence they have
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,628 Pioneering
    Hi jjdd70,

    I'm really sorry but I have to agree with my colleague Paul. In practice even when presented with overwhelming evidence that a decision should be revised, the DWP rarely do this before the tribunal. 

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70
    jjdd70 Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    hi all update ok so now waiting for appeals date just got the big bino book all  the paper work 
    ok so on 1 of the pages it says IF THE TRIBUNAL DECIDE TO AWARD BENEFIT THE EARLIAST DATE FOR ANY PIP AWARD IS 19/10/2016
    also says
    POINTS OF DISPUTE
    IN HIS APPEAL MY HUSBAND STATES HE WAS ON DLA INDEFIINATE 
    ANY PREVIUOS ENTITLTMENT TO DLA HAS NO IMPACT ON THE PERSONAL INDEPENCE PAYMENT DETERNIMATION THIS IS BECUASE THE BENEFITS USE DIFFRENT ENTILEMENT CONDITIONS
    then it says 
    CONCLUSION
    I OPPOSE THIS APPEAL AND ASK THE TRIBUNAL TO DISMISS THE APPEAL AND CONFIRM THE SECRETARY OF STATES DESCISION
    I'm guessing this is something quite normal at the moment to be receiving from pip 
  • jjdd70
    jjdd70 Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    also have to says before the submission forms came weeks before we had sent tribunal all unto date gp letters stating he cannot read or write 
    gp confirms my husband is under mental health due to long term illness gp confirms everything that my husband should have had points for like he cant read or write he cannot cook due to leg problems he needs someone to give medication and needs help bathing shower personal needs everything the gp confirms this is true compared to the 0 points she awarded him
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,628 Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    Hi 

    Yes that does sound like a pretty standard DWP statement about PIP - it's true I'm afraid that previous entitlement to DLA doesn't indicate entitlement to PIP. That doesn't mean that it isn't relevant - care and supervision your husband needs, which meant he got DLA, may be relevant to some of the PIP activities.
    If possible it would still be best if you can get help preparing your side of the paperwork and if possible representation for your husband at the appeal, for example from Citizens Advice.

    It sounds as if your husband should get points in quite a few activities, confirmed by the GP. As you've explained above, he can't cook, so should get some points in preparing food. He can't take his medication so should get points in managing therapy. He needs help washing, so should get points for that too. He can't read, so may get points in reading and understanding. I wonder, from what you're saying, whether he should also get points in making budgeting decisions (however, once the tribunal has awarded 12 points, it doesn't have to consider extra points in other activities).

    Also, it sounds as if your husband might also score points in planning and following journeys (for the mobility component). 

    If you want to go through the activities so you can state what points you think your husband should have scored, you could try this PIP self test with him. Back up any statements you make by referring to the GP evidence and/or examples from everyday life. Show where and why the ATOS assessment is wrong.

    Get all the paperwork in date order.

    It's quite a lot of work to prepare for a tribunal so if you can get help locally, I'd strongly recommend that. 

    I also wouldn't give up on the ATOS complaint - if they haven't followed their own complaints procedure as suggested above then all the more reason to take the complaint further.

    Good luck with it.

    WIll
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70
    jjdd70 Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    Hi will thanks for replying I've been on the phone all day today to try and get help from cab but they are pretty much inendated with calls so they gave me dial number but there services are closing down on 31st march so no help there rang welfare rights they are the same only 1 lafy deals with this and she's snowed under tried 3 places even been in touch with equity advisor services they have done a template for me to proceed with the complaint with atos and dwp I've really tried my best since 9am this morning and got no where  I'm getting stressed my self I put my tea towel in fridge earlier don't know why I did that sorry realised no full stops. The paper work we got back has over 200 pages. And has far has medical evidence go letters etc over 20 the crma complaint is over a few that's the best from them stating that the nurse has not even used medical letters prescriptions etc in consideration and that the physical examination is not even inconsistent with the disability my husband has. e.g. My husband can lift his leg above his waist stood up purely lies I was in room and believe me no examination was not done.he sat in tears through out the 20 mins he's under the mental health for trying to cope with his long term condition.
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,628 Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    Hi

    I can see how difficult it is to get the help you need. Take one thing at a time and bear in mind, tribunal judges know how hard it is to get representation so they will be sympathetic to that. 
    With the complaint, explain how the assessment doesn't fit the facts, point out where the facts are just wrong, point out the medical evidence which they failed to consider. It really sounds as if you couldn't complain strongly enough about the assessment. The report doesn't relate to what actually happened.

    For the appeal, as I say have all the paperwork in date order. Do the same thing with the assessor's report - explain where it is incorrect, and why. Say what you think the decision should be, based on what points your husband should get in each relevant activity. And link all the points to the evidence you have.

    It's also useful to understand sometimes what evidence is relevant. For example, the fact that your husband is under the care of mental health services doesn't, by itself, mean that he should get points. But you might have evidence from psychiatrists etc which backs up points he should get in certain activities, for example, engaging with people, or planning and following journeys. 

    I wouldn't give up on trying to get local help, but if you can't do that then just be as clear as you can in what you send to the tribunal: set out the points your husband should get and why, and explain what happened with the assessment. It sounds as if you have plenty of evidence, which is a good thing, but you do need to be specific about what you think the PIP decision should be based on that evidence.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70
    jjdd70 Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    ok so update been to CAB and they said my husband has a very strong case against pip for the tribunal so i have to pick up tomorrow what ever letters CAB has done because it was taking to long
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,628 Pioneering
    Hi jjdd70

    Thanks for the update and it's good to hear you are getting support from the CAB. Keep us posted with how it goes and good luck.

    Best wishes

    Paul
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70
    jjdd70 Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    Hi picked papers up from CAB they said my husband has a very strong case because of all medical school letter and how the gap report that the doctors done was great only thing they said was because my husband has physical problems him self they said how can he be claiming Carers for me and like I have said I have 2 older children  do physical things for me 1 is 19 yrs and other is 28 yrs old they alternative physical roles for me throughout the day and when there is gaps in between them arriving myself and husband just sit and talk etc to each other and he makes sure I'm safe because I'm prone to falls all day so he makes sure I'm safe and because I couldn't put everyone down to claim Carers. I just put my husband name down because I'm with him 24/7 and I split the carer with my son and daughter each week because they do come to do meals and cups tea for us. that's  the only thing he could see on the form but after I explained this he said I need to do a letter to tribunals again saying same ting has above so they know it's not physical support from my husband but more watching to make sure I don't fall etc and talk but more emotional 
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,628 Pioneering
    Hi jjdd70

    Caring can include supervision as well as assistance and so i think your husband's Carer's Allowance entitlement is likely to be completely correct. But it is a good idea to be clear about the help that your husband gives you and that it amounts to at least 35 hours per week.

    David
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70
    jjdd70 Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    still waiting for pip appeal date does anyone know how long they take everything been in since beginning of feb this year 
  • Matilda
    Matilda Member Posts: 2,610 Disability Gamechanger
    I live in London, put my appeal in mid Dec 2016 - don't expect to get a hearing date until June.
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,628 Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    Hi
    As Matilda says, it can take months, although it does depend where you live. But I would agree that if you put it in at the beginning of February I wouldn't expect a date before the summer.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland

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