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Pip tribunal

Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
edited April 2017 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi,I was wondering after sending all the paperwork to the court,have they ever overturned the Atos decision before the court date. My partner has mental health problems & is getting into a terrible state about going through this ordeal. Many thanks

Replies

  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hi,I posted a query a couple of hours ago,but haven't had any reply. Just wondered if it had gone through ok?
  • AlexAlex Posts: 1,325 Scope community team
    edited April 2017
    Hi Jayne66,

    Yes - we've got your post. The Benefits Advisers have a very limited time they can answer queries on the community each day - but will get to your post as soon as they can.
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hello. There is some information about the mandatory reconsideration process on this link from CAB: www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration/
    This site also has useful information about the appeals process, as does the benefits calculator which you can find on this Scope website. The Scope Helpline number might also be able to put you in touch with a local advice service which may be able to help you further. It's not unknown for PIP refusals to be overturned at the mandatory reconsideration stage, although the success rate is far higher at the appeals stage. If you get turned down on mandatory reconsideration then please don't give up! If you do end up needing to go to an appeal, make sure you do lots of research on the PIP scoring system, and that your partner knows the areas where he is likely to score points. You may also need to get some quality medical evidence to support your claim. There is another website called Benefits and Work (www.benefitsandwork.co.uk) - if you become a member, then they have helpful people on the site who can support you (online)  through the MR and appeals process. Keep going - that's the main thing! 
    Good luck,

    Jayne
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    We are going to tribunal next week,mandatory reconsideration was turned down. The Atos report is full of lies. We have support workers,but was wondering after sending in new medical evidence has anyone ever had it overturned before appearing at the tribunal? Many thanks
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited April 2017
    [email protected],  Yes, I have. I had my Mandatory Reconsideration turned down but because I'd complained to ATOS about the lies on my report and sent DWP more evidence they agreed to look at my claim again and I got the mobility changed from standard to the higher rate after having been sent the MR decision. I too have mental health problems and told DWP all along I couldn't cope with the stress of going to Appeal. This has been my experience and I'm not saying anyone can do this but I know it's also happened to other people that they have been rung by a DWP DM just before the tribunal to offer them a higher rate. 
          Unfortunately it's probably too late for you to do anything before your partner's tribunal next week because if you did manage to persuade DWP to look at your partner's claim again they would take too long as it appears to be standard practice that they send claims back to ATOS for another review of the medical evidence and you would miss the tribunal. This is more about what you could have done rather than what you can do now. If you are your partner's official appointee for his benefit or if you have power of attorney you can go with him and should be able to speak on his behalf which may help him feel less stressed. If not you can still go if you've notified the tribunal service you wish to do that and why. But it'll be up to the panel whether they let you speak. (not sure if this last bit is correct.) All the other advice on here will help you more than I can as I haven't been to Appeal since 2010. I was just answering your original question. Good Luck.... 
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Ok thank you for your information. Both myself & the support worker are going with him. They won't get a lot out of him. Fingers crossed. Dreading next week. 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @Jayne66, Just reread your posts. If you've sent in more evidence and asked the DWP to look at it again maybe it's worth ringing them tomorrow to see what's happening but if not I'm sure it won't be as bad as you think next week. Let us know how you get on.. 
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    @wildlife. Will do, so stressful. 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi @Jayne66,

    Good luck at the Tribunal.
    If I can provide any reassurance at all, and as I say to people that I assist with appeals, don't let the word 'Judge' and 'Court' make you feel like you are walking into a scene from a TV court drama; the appeal hearing is far more informal than it sounds.
    There will be 3 tribunal panel members (A Judge, A Medical Professional (normally a doctor), and somebody who has worked with or has life experience of  disabilities).
    If you have looked at the bundle of papers that should have been sent to you, make sure you know which points you think are appropriate and why you disagree with the points or lack of points that the DWP awarded. If the DWP decision maker refers to the ATOS findings in their decision and you think this was based on incorrect information from the medical assessor from ATOS then make sure you bring this up and hopefully the support worker who is going with you can give evidence to support why the medical assessment was incorrect.
    If you have sent in information for the Tribunal to see recently, make sure that the Tribunal have this on the day. Sometimes it can take up to 14 days for information that is sent in to be distributed to all parties. I would phone HMCTS (phone number should be on the top of your appeal hearing letter with your reference and NI number) and see if they have it and have sent it out. If not, take it with you on the day and hand it to the clerk to the court (again sounds 'formal' but don't worry) and ask that they hand it to the Tribunal to look at before you go in.
    You should be allowed to speak and so should the support worker. However, most questions may be directed to your partner first of all. In recent tribunals I have attended, if the appellant is having difficulty responding, gentle prompts from representatives and family have been allowed.

    Hope this is helpful and good luck,

    Laura
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @Jayne66 I have just seen your posts, and want to send my good wishes for you and your Partner at the tribunal. I have no advice as we have not yet reached the Tribunal stage, I do think that is not far away though. Just try to think that this time next week it will be done and dusted. Hubby always says to me that no matter who these People are they are still just People. I know this is a bit gross, but he always imagines them sitting on the loo, as long as you don't giggle that's fine  :-)
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    @Justice,thank you. That's all I keep thinking,it will all be over. I will try not to giggle
  • DippyDippy Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Hi i posted in help page about pip ? New donor sure if this group will see my post doneed some help please 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi Dippy,

    If you need benefits advice then please start a new thread in the benefits advisor area. Thanks.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hello,everyone. As you know we have been waiting for a date to go to the tribunal,after the first one on the 4th May was adjourned due to poor paperwork from the dwp and gp. I'm being given the run around by the court,the dwp said they sent off paperwork when requested & got told by the court that they had received it,asked where our copy was & was told it would be sent out. Gp sent theirs off after a lot of arguing by me. Now the court are saying that they haven't received the dwp report. HELP, I'm going out of my mind with all this. Many thanks 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi Jayne66,

    If the tribunal service haven't received the DWP report then this reflects badly on the DWP - not on you. It's not clear here whether the fault is entirely the DWP's, or the Tribunal Service's - the DWP say that they were told HMCTS (Her Majesty's Courts and Tribunal Service) received it, but the Tribunal Service say they haven't got it!

    So you could complain, but you'd need to complain to both the DWP and HMCTS because it's not clear who's messed up this time. I'd advise, as Laura suggests, that if your hearing goes ahead & you are not sure if the tribunal has the DWP's paperwork that you take in your copy of it to pass to the clerk (who can also copy it for you) then. 

    The complaints procedure for the DWP is here, and for HMCTS is here. Another option is that HMCTS (or rather the tribunal) can require the DWP to provide their submission. So one option is that you ask the tribunal to require the DWP to send in their report. They have the power to do this. If you do ask them to do this (it's called issuing a direction) then it might focus HMCTS on making sure they haven't received it before they demand it!

    You can give your reasons for the application (explaining that you were told by the DWP they have sent it in, but HMCTS have not received it). This also avoids you having to make a complaint about HMCTS before your hearing.

    And then let's hope you get a date!

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hi,everyone, I'm wondering if anyone can help me with this. As you know we are still waiting for a court date! We received a letter from the dwp saying they have all the information they require,so called them and was told that they now have a 28 day turnaround and was told that it didn't look like they were going to appeal! We have now received a letter from the court and it was saying about extra evidence they had received,but the copies we got were old ones,it said that some of the evidence had changed the points he was awarded was wondering can they make a decision without you appearing?? I'm so confused please can someone give me a bit of information. Many thanks 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Jayne66,

    I wonder if what is happening here is that the DWP are going to change the decision before the appeal is heard. This can happen sometimes when you provide additional evidence. If the DWP revise the decision in your favour, the appeal can 'lapse', meaning it doesn't go ahead.

    If that is going to happen, you will be notified of the new decision, and if you're not happy with it, you will have the right to appeal (without having to ask for a mandatory reconsideration first).

    Given the comment about extra evidence changing the points, it does look to me as if it's possible the DWP are going to do this. If that is not what is happening though, no decision should be made without the claimant appearing before the tribunal UNLESS you have chosen to have a decision made on the papers only.

    Hope that helps.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hi Will,thank you so much for your information. Just another quick question do they have to back date all the money?,as I've heard that sometimes this doesn't happen. Thank you again 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Jayne66 ,

    They absolutely do. If they decide to accept the tribunal decision, they must pay you going back to the date of the original decision you were appealing against. 

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hi Will,thank you so much for your information. Will let you know how it all goes. Thank you again 
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hi everyone, Just an update,we had the court hearing today and they overturned the Atos decision. Just to say thank you all for your advice and tips on how to tackle this. It's been a very long year. Thanks again 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering

    Wonderful news @Jayne66 !


    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hi everyone,I have been informed that we may have to wait up to 30 days as the dwp could contest this. The judge did say on the day that they may do this,but she would answer this immediately. I don’t think the dwp did themselves any favours with the judge as they was asked to attend but no one showed up. Has anyone had their money that is owed payed before the 30 days? Thanks again 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,258 Disability Gamechanger
    It usually takes the DWP 5-8 weeks to put a tribunal award into payment
    .
    They do have a habit of mislaying these decisions so always check that they have received it.

    DWP now are requesting SOR from the judge in many more cases. To be able to appeal the decision an error of law has to be found, hense the SOR. This in some cases can delay payment as judges do not have a time limit to produce an SOR. It seems that by asking for an SOR the claim is frozen until it is received, then they have a month to appeal the decision if they find an error of law which is rare.

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @Jayne66 Congrats on the result of the Tribunal, hang on in there and you will get the payments you've waited so long for. Judges know what they're doing so don't worry about the threat by DWP to appeal. It's diabolical that it went on so long. The sooner things are changed the better. For anyone reading this and in answer to your original question yes the DWP Decision Makers can change the award anytime right up to the date of the Appeal. One person I heard of was on their way to the hearing when DWP rang to say no need to attend. But you have to make it happen by ringing, writing and sending in more evidence, just keep going. If everyone did this bearing in mind to be careful you don't lose anything you've already been offered then maybe the message would get through about how bad many assessment reports really are, done intentionally to deny you what you're entitled to. 
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    @[email protected]. Thank you both so much for your replies it’s put my mind at rest now. @wildlife, your right in how long it has taken I sometimes felt like throwing the towel in,but I just couldn’t let the liar win. Thanks again 
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hi everyone,another update. Dwp have just called they are not contesting it!
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,258 Disability Gamechanger
    That is  great news

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    I'm so pleased Jayne. Thanks for letting us know.
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hi everyone, I’m back again but this time for me. I had to do the renewal form for my pip just before Christmas. I have MS,Diverticulitis,Hiatus Hernia & after all the stress from my partners situation with his pip I now have depression. I have been informed that I will now be having a home visit which I was told it was Atos. What should I do if it’s the same assessor that did my partners one and scored him nil points and then we went to tribunal. Any advice would be gratefully received. Thank you in advance 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    edited February 2018
    Hi Jayne66,

    I would say it would be unlikely that it'll be the same one. I guess if it is the same one you could express your dissatisfaction to the assessor when they arrive and politely state that you would like the appointment to be abandoned and a different assessor sent out, especially if that assessor got your husband's so badly wrong.
    Whether they would agree to that I'm not sure but you'd have to cross that bridge when you come to it. Let's just hope it's not the same one and then it won't matter too much.

    Lee
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Thank you so much for your advice. Fingers crossed it isn’t her.
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