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PIP walking times (rather than distances)

MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
edited June 2017 in PIP, DLA and AA
I won my tribunal appeal a month ago.  But both the Atos paramedic and the tribunal doctor asked me for how long can I walk (don't recall either of them asking how far I could walk).  So what are the medics and paramedics trying to find out by asking for how long someone can walk, when PIP is supposed to be about how far?

The doctor seemed to think that the question of for how long I could walk was straightforward.  I asked him if he meant :

for how long before I needed to stop and rest for the first time

or did he mean for how long in total in one walking episode, inclusive of rest stops?

or did he mean for how long in total, exclusive of rest stops?  

He didn't appear to understand my question!  His question never was really answered as he didn't explain what he meant by 'for how long'.

Replies

  • BeccaShark123BeccaShark123 Member Posts: 46 Courageous
    Hi Matilda,

    Hope you're doing well.

    I had a similar experience to you when applying for PIP. The assessor explained to me that what he meant was that the distances (measured in yards) were how far I could walk without being in so much pain or discomfort, so much so that I needed to rest, as I have fibromyalgia, joint hypermobility and some issues with my back.

    For PIP assessment criteria, It's a tricky one with some disabilities. For example, if I was walking somewhere, I'd have no choice but to push through and get there: I've quite often walked to the corner shop and collapsed in a chair when I got home! So think of it as ''What is the maximum, on a bad day, that I can endure walking without being in pain or discomfort?" as I would push through the pain if I needed to, and then rest when I was able to do so, because I am in pain all the time, so 'before you need to rest' does not cover it for me personally.

    I hope that clears things up a little- feel free to approach me with a follow up question if you want to!

    Becca :)
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    edited June 2017
    Thank you @BeccaShark123

    The criteria for getting around are measured in metres.  Surely if someone at assessment said they push through pain to walk for 20 minutes and cover 300 metres, even though it almost causes them to collapse, would not be awarded any PIP mobility?
  • BeccaShark123BeccaShark123 Member Posts: 46 Courageous
    Hi Matilda,

    Apologies- yes it is metres! I  have got out my PIP award letter to try and clarify what I mean, as you're making a very valid point! I was awarded points for 'Using an aid or appliance, can walk 20 metres, but no more than 50' 

    I should have probably explained- a lot of journeys I do are in the car, pretty much door-to-door. Me walking to the shop isn't something I do on a regular basis.

    Looking at the assessor's comments, whether you fit a descriptor is based on what happens on the 'majority of days' so, for the majority of days, 20-50 metres is roughly how far I can go. I could push through if needed, but I suppose if I was having a bad day, I would be doing as little walking as possible. The majority of days my pain does restrict my mobility. The assessor also notes separately that in the assessment it was shown I had little power or coordination in my legs, which must factor in somewhere?

    I hope that makes a bit more sense,

    Becca :)
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    edited June 2017
    @BeccaShark123

    Thank you.

    I am referring to time, not distance.

    I understand about how far - metres.  But the Atos paramedic and the tribunal doctor both asked for how long - minutes I can walk, not how far.

    So I am curious as to why a PIP assessor and a tribunal doctor were interested in for how long, not how far, I can walk.
  • dedusdedus Member Posts: 25 Connected
    How the assesses work anything out baffles me !
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @dedus

    It's guesswork at best.  And, if they can't even guess, they just make it up.  Hence the number of complaints about assessors lying in their reports.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi Matilda

    It's great to hear that you got an entitlement following your appeal tribunal.

    Time is important because you have to be able to complete the PIP activities reliably. Reliably includes: safely; to an appropriate standard, in a timely manner; and repeatedly. And so the time it takes you to walk could affect this.

    David
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Thank you, David.

    I'm not sure that is what the assessor at least was trying to ascertain. I told her that I could walk for three or four minutes but she didn't ask the distance covered in that time. The DWP case worker put three four minutes in their award letter implying that that was a fairly capable walking ability. In my MR request I put three or four minutes to walk 20 meters on a really bad day

    I asked the tribunal doctor did he mean how long before I needed to stop and rest but he just repeated how long could I walk for.  In the end he settled for how long could I walk round a shop including rest stops (10 to 15 minutes).
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Member Posts: 64 Courageous
    matilda did you get a letter after your tribunal from pip saying they are considering asking for reason of discussion etc 
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @jjdd70

    No, I was lucky.  DWP have paid me.

    I suggest that you phone DWP and ask them what the delay is.  Hope your husband gets his payment soon.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    Matilda as David has advised, both time AND distance are relevant to PIP. Time is relevant because if it takes you more than twice as long as someone without your condition, you should be considered not to be able to do it. Distance is relevant because we need to know what it is you cannot do (the relevant distances being more than one, 20, 50 and 200 metres depending on which descriptor is being considered).

    jjdd as discussed in the other post you made, I'm afraid your husband won't get paid until/unless the DWP decide not to appeal (which I really hope is the case) - if they apply for permission to appeal you will have to wait until the further appeal route is exhausted.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    @jjdd70 Will is giving you the regulations regarding DWP's right to appeal but please also take note of what others have told you regarding the likelihood of this happening  which is very slim. It would be a good idea for someone to make a Freedom of Information request to DWP to ask for the number of appeals made by them against tribunal decisions in a certain timescale. That would help to put this in perspective and give people peace of mind which is what DWP are determined we won't have even after winning the appeals.  
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    @wildlife

    That's a very good idea. What we can say is that the DWP are using this delaying tactic (asking for statement of reasons) more often than they used to. I'd say anecdotally they are also appealing more often, but it would help to know the figures.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Will

    At no point did the assessor ask about distance as well, only about time

    The tribunal doctor in one question also only asked about time not distance.  In a separate question the doc asked about distance alone.

    At no point did either assessor or doctor consider distance and time together.
  • marymoomarymoo Member Posts: 4 Listener
    Hi when l got my assement he put walk and stand  a 1minite down in 20 meters  l said l have to stop and start he never put that down  my carer told him to he said if l put more than that 1 minute  won't get my car l never got full points for it anyway the letter said it's just over 20 meters how do they work this out please 


  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @marymoo

    Assessors don't try to measure walking distances accurately!  They find ridiculous excuses to claim that someone can walk farther than 20 meters.

    Have you asked DWP for a copy of the assessor's report and have you asked for a mandatory reconsideration (MR)?

    Try to get some local f2f advice from CAB or similar.
  • marymoomarymoo Member Posts: 4 Listener
    Only got it yesterday so going to ring CAB up on Monday morning 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi marrymoo

    The generally accepted scale is

    Fast walking                  90 meters per minute
    Slow walking                 60 meters per minute
    Very slow walking     <  45 meters per minute

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • marymoomarymoo Member Posts: 4 Listener
    edited April 2018
    I did say its takes me longer to walk than a 1 minite because l have to stop but the asseser said will put down 1 minite because you won't get the points for the car has l said l never got them anyway l got 10 points 
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @marymoo

    Assessors do lie.  My assessor wrote that because she watched me walk 16m from waiting area to assessment room then I must be able to walk 20m - 50m, which is a ridiculous claim.  On the other hand, tribunals are impartial and at my tribunal the panel agreed that I cannot walk more than 20m before I need to stop and rest.
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    I wonder if they would use counting steps? I use an app on my phone to count steps and distance as it helps me with anxiety. Just throwing that in , helpful or not?
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • april123april123 Member Posts: 137 Pioneering
    Mine googled distance from taxi rank to assessment centre 60 yards 10 mins with 2 stops anyone know if this is good or bad oh and 16 yards as well from waiting room to assessment room must of had the same assors.
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