PIP, DLA and AA
If this is your first visit, check out the community guide. You will have to Join us or Sign in before you can post.

Son scoring 0 points on PIP; Need Advice Please

blysie27blysie27 Member Posts: 14 Listener
edited June 2017 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi I am new to this community but would be grateful for any advice please.
My son who is now 19 has been getting middle rate care and low mobility rate on DLA. We have had to apply now for PIP and have had our assessment on the 31st May this year. I have not had the official report back yet for the PIP claim but have been told over the telephone that my son scored 0 POINTS!! Unless he has been cured overnight in his sleep I really don't understand the outcome. He has been diagnosed through CAMHS with autism, dyspraxia, dyslexia and mild tourettes. Just based on the first section of preparing a simple meal. We told the assessor that he uses special cutlery that he can't chop or peel a potato has no understanding of cooking meat from scratch with regards to timings or temperatures and does not use the oven as he doesn't like the heat from it when you open the door. We also told her he does do himself pot noodles,ice cream,  toast and cereal for his meals if he is on his own so I am horrified to hear that he scored 0 points on this section. I was of the understanding a simple meal meant meat, potatoes and vegetables? Also on the understanding of written words he scored 0 points even though he was in a special unit at school for dyslexia and had to have a one to one support in class plus a reader and scribe for exams with extra time allowed. How can he possibly score 0 points on this which the definition for this is can read and understand basic and complex written information unaided or using spectacles or contact lenses!!
I am really not sure what has happened and wonder if anyone else has had similar problems with PIP?

Replies

  • steve51steve51 Member Posts: 7,175 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi blysie27.
    It is great to have you here & I hope that you can find the info that you currently require ??? Can I point you towards our Benefits Advisory section where you can access plenty of info on PIP. You will find lots off similar situations like yours with PIP's. Please let me know if I can help you further???
  • MikeBroderickMikeBroderick Member Posts: 234 Courageous
    Hi @blysie27:

    Welcome to the Community. It's nice to have you here. 

    I'm sorry to hear about your son's struggles with PIP.

    We have a new section of tips from our Community members about appealing a PIP decision, so please have a look there to help you prepare should you need to.

    As @steve51 mentioned, a lot of people have been going through this, so you will find good discussions in our PIP/DLA section as well.

    We're glad you're here, and I wish you and your son the best.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    edited June 2017
    @blysie27

    I've reposted below because I thought that this post had disappeared.
  • dedusdedus Member Posts: 25 Connected
    If your son has been diagnosed with autism , that alone should be a sound basis for pips and e s a , I would definitely appeal !!
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @blysie27

    I've just posted a reply but it's disappeared!  I'll try again.

    DWP don't define what a simple meal from fresh ingredients is - it can be anything at all that you have to prepare.  To have got points in the food preparation category your son would have needed not to be able to prepare cereal, pot noodle, etc on bad days - the reasons could vary depending on his condition.   He would have had to try to prepare the cereal, etc but have had to give up.  

    This isn't sane logic - but it is PIP logic.  Say no more.

    My assessor craftily asked me if sometimes I don't bother trying to peel/chop veg but instead opt for a sandwich.  I replied, no, I always persevere with the veg until forced to give up on bad days - because of pain or stiffness or because I almost cut myself.

    Are you going to appeal?  The first stage is mandatory reconsideration.  Scope have a good guide to MR - look under  Support and information.  And both Scope and Disability rights have good guides to PIP including making appeals.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @blysie27 as @Matilda says you have to be careful what you say your son CAN do as everything gets twisted and used as reasons to deny him benefit he's entitled to. I would say from now on only tell them what he has problems with and why and with each activity make a reference to his medical evidence if you have already sent it to the DWP. The assessors very often don't use it but the DWP case workers will if you point it out to them. After you receive the decision in writing the Mandatory Reconsideration is the next stage and involves writing a letter with that as the heading with your son's NI number. Do you have his assessment report? If not ring DWP and ask for a copy to be sent to you. Then go through it and the decision letter and write out everything you disagree with & why. Send in more evidence if you have it or get more if you can unless you feel they've got enough to support what you're telling them. Post again if the MR is turned down. Don't forget also that you can phone anytime to ask for a call back from a DWP Decision Maker (Case Worker they are now called) and discuss your son's case with them. This can be done right up to Appeal so keep going till you get the message across. You can also complaint to the Assessment Company about the assessor and standard of the report. This will lend weight to your MR. Good Luck...
  • twistertwister Member Posts: 11 Listener
    strongly encourage you to seek help from local advise agency or CAB to help you drat a Man Recon or Appeal  as this is very difficult area with more twists and turns than a maze and more contradictions thank you can shake a stick at good luck and keep fighting - may I also suggest rightsnet as they have case law about this area you may find helpful
  • blysie27blysie27 Member Posts: 14 Listener
    Thank you all for your kind advice & help. I have just received the report & have asked them to look at it again, Fingers crossed
  • steve51steve51 Member Posts: 7,175 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @blysie27.

    No probs.

    Please please let us know how things go ???

    We will all keep our fingers & toes crossed for you.
  • blysie27blysie27 Member Posts: 14 Listener
  • blysie27blysie27 Member Posts: 14 Listener
    Well I have been told today that there has been no change on the outcome of the reconsideration for my son. I am totally confused by this outcome and really can't see how this can happen when someone has a condition that is for a lifetime. Feeling really fed up at the moment and sons anxiety is through the roof!
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @blysie27

    Only 16% of MRs succeed but 65% of tribunal appeals do.   Remember, PIP points are awarded not for the condition itself but how it affects the person, i.e. their ability to walk, find their way around, bathe, dress, take medication, use the toilet, prepare food, cook and eat - plus a few more.  The Disability Rights website gives a full list of descriptors and their applicable points.

    You will get some points if you use aids but still have difficulty completing a task within a reasonable time, or if you can't complete it at all even using aids.  With walking, to get points you must not be able to exceed the various walking limits even using aids.

    Have you asked DWP for a copy of assessor's report?  If not, I'd recommend that you do so.

    The next step is to appeal to a tribunal.  Scope have a guide to making appeals.  Search under 'Support and information'.  Also, Disability Rights site has a guide to PIP appeals.  DR also publish a Handbook which gives guidance on appeals.  You have to buy it but there are discounts for people on means-tested benefits.

    If possible, get some face to face help from CAB or similar organisation.

    I won my tribunal appeal a month ago and below are my tips, with a link at the end to more tips.  Also, at the hearing be prepared to have to go over the same material you've gone over several times already!   My tribunal drew heavily on my diary for their questions.  If your son didn't submit a diary with his PIP application, I suggest that he submits one with his appeal papers.  DR site has a draft diary.

    I think my diary helped the tribunal focus clearly on my disabilities because I set out in a daily table (over seven days) what I can and can't do.  I also listed all the aids I use.

    At the tribunal, have your wits about you and be prepared for a grilling; and have thorough medical evidence even if it's not recent.

    The only medical evidence I had was the DWP doctor's report and my GP's report from 1998 (both very thorough) when I was awarded DLA highest rates both components indefinitely.

    The other two tribunal members weren't too bad - but the doctor asked some probing questions.  Asked for how long I could walk (time).  The Atos assessor asked that, too.  Although of course PIP points are supposed to be awarded for distance, not time (or so I thought).

    Doc also asked how did I know I could only walk 20 yards?  Had I ever measured it?  I replied no, it was an estimate based on experience of distances.

    The judge, doctor (as well as the Atos assessor) all seemed to think that ability to drive indicates a low level of disability.  Which is nonsense.  What's the point of Motability, then?  And many disabled people would be housebound without a car.  

    I only take two, maybe three, round trips of 12 miles or less a week; I find driving long distances tiring.  I wouldn't advise any claimant to state that they do a lot of driving, especially longer distances.

  • Liam_AlumniLiam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 1,113 Pioneering
    Hi @blysie27,

    I'm sorry to hear about the problems you're having with PIP, and that the mandatory reconsideration was unsuccessful.

    As @Matilda mentions in her reply above, the next step in the appeals process is the tribunal. We have lots of information about appeals - including a video on tribunals - in the support and information section of our website.

    I've also moved this post over to our Ask a Benefits Advisor category, so @BenefitsTrainingCo can further advice.
    Liam
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    @blysie27 Can I ask who told you about the MR result? Did you ring DWP or have you received the "brown envelope"? As well as applying for Appeal I would try and speak to a case worker if you haven't already done so to find out why they are not accepting the help your son needs. Maybe they are missing vital evidence or need more to be sent to them. Whatever the problem is I wouldn't give up at this stage on the attempt to get his claim dealt with properly. DWP have the power to change the decision right up to Appeal. Let them know what a state your son is in and threaten them with your MP/making a complaint. This is only what I would do and did do with my own claim. I'm not an expert but at the same time I don't sit back and accept things.    
        
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering

    Hi @blysie27

    Sorry to read about what's going on with you and your son.

    It's time to shake yourself off now and get a clear head for appealing. Up to now you've been dealing with the DWP who have their own axe to grind - let's not forget that PIP was introduced essentially as a method of reducing the welfare spending - from now on you will be dealing with the Tribunal who are NOT biased.

    First Step - merit your case. If you can't find a local specialist (CAB/Welfare Rights/MoneyAdvice/ etc) then do this yourself. What I mean is - figure out where your son will score points and where he won't. Try to figure out what rates you think he will get - don't use his DLA award as an indication as PIP is totally different. Benefits and Work do a PIP self-assessment which is useful, be totally honest, as like @Matilda says, the Tribunal will give your son a real grilling and any exaggeration will not go down well. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-self-test

    Second Step - complete the appeal form SSCS1 if you have not already done so. I disagree with @twister that you might find this difficult - it's mainly just personal details - in the grounds, keep it simple - I disagree with the decision because... [list reasons as bullet points, bearing in mind the meriting you have done in step 1!]. Main things are, don't say anything you may later regret (be vague if needs be) and make sure you request an oral hearing.

    Third Step - attend the hearing, and here you can see @Matilda 's tips above.

    Gather as much supportive evidence as you can, and submit this to the Tribunals Service as early as possible - but if you can't get any, still go, as your son's oral evidence will be the best evidence in any event.

    Good luck, and do let us know how you get on - or if you need any more info!

    Kind regards,

    Mary

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • hayles123hayles123 Member Posts: 19 Listener
    Hi I have received my pip report and all my questions have been answered with an A does this mean I have scored 0

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    hayles123 said:
    Hi I have received my pip report and all my questions have been answered with an A does this mean I have scored 0

    Hi,

    I just answered your other question with this reply.


    Yes, i'm afraid that's a recommendation that no points are scored which means no award recommended. They mostly go with the report, it's rare to go against it but you still need to wait for the decision.

    Once the decision is made you have 1 month to request the Mandatory Reconsideration. You need to put the request in writing stating what you disagree with and where you think you should have scored those points and why. Adding 2-3 examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity.

    I'd advise you to contact a local advice centre near you for help and advice.
    https://advicelocal.uk/

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • telscopetelscope Member Posts: 37 Connected
    As someone has mentioned above, about a Mandatory Reconsideration, that is the direction I went through, before I could go to a tribunal. 
    Go for it & I wish you the best of luck.
  • blysie27blysie27 Member Posts: 14 Listener
    Hi
    just to update you on my sons claim for pip.
    we went to citizens advice and were also represented by Berkshire autism and we won our case! 👍😊it took a while to go through the procedures but I would recommend that anyone in the same position doesn’t give in & fights for what they are untitled too!! 
Sign in or join us to comment.