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Pip confusing refusal

BrettleeBrettlee Member Posts: 16 Listener
edited October 2017 in PIP, DLA and AA
My partner who has suffered with anxiety and depression for almost 20yrs and more recently 
c,o, p,d has received a response after her pip assessment that's confusing to say the least. It states numerous times about crutches, her grasp on them etc, she's never used nor needed crutches, it states she had a physical examination yet she was just sat in a chair and asked questions but nowhere does it mention her c,o,p,d. According to the assessor she can plan and execute a journey by herself, it doesn't mention that I took her and if I hadn't she wouldn't have gone same as everywhere she has to go which assessor was informed of, it said she didn't show any signs of anxiety but she cried whilst waiting and through out,  it says she doesn't have problems cooking a meal but yet they were told I prepare all meals and if I didn't she'd not eat, it says she doesn't have problems taking her medicine but again if I didn't give them to her she wouldn't take them as was told to assessor. On every aspect she scored 0 points but the way in which the letter is written is as if they've merged my partners assessment with that of somebody else. Does anyone know what we've to do next. Can we appeal. Sorry for the rant & Thank you in advance.

Replies

  • pepper123pepper123 Member Posts: 3 Listener
    hello I had the same response , mine was an ambulance driver who assessed my capabilities , even though I had letters from my GP and consultant , anyway to cut a very long story short , I appealed and lost , so I went to a tribunal and won my case , hope this helps ,
  • BrettleeBrettlee Member Posts: 16 Listener
    Thanks glad you won. After reading as much information as possible it seems to me that there's a standard set of questions without much thought that everybody suffers differently. 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering

    Brettlee
    Brettlee,

    Sorry to hear this. Unfortunately it sounds as if your partner like many other people has had a very bad assessment which didn't look at her condition in detail and has issued a report full of errors. It does often sound as if they are talking about someone else and sometimes I genuinely think they do get people mixed up. You are right about the standard set of questions though.

    The first thing to do is to ask for a mandatory reconsideration. Say you don't agree with the decision. It's good to be specific about what points your partner should have got. 

    You can use the PIP self-test here.

    As part of the mandatory reconsideration request you can say that the assessor's report isn't reliable as it doesn't describe what actually happened at the assessment. There's no need to go into lots of detail but if you do have other medical evidence, supply it.

    If the decision isn't changed at this stage then you may have to appeal. It's not essential to complain about the assessment but it can help to show that you simply don't accept it as evidence at all if you complain about it. 

    The decision letter from the DWP should explain how to ask them for a mandatory reconsideration. Don't be put off it they offer you an explanation instead. Insist on getting a mandatory reconsideration notice. You can always come back for more advice if you need to appeal after you get that. 

    Good luck!
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • BrettleeBrettlee Member Posts: 16 Listener
    Hi thanks for that, I phoned this morning and woman I spoke to agreed that it was an error by their claims person after going through decision letter and my partners symptoms they said they will now be looking at it again as a fresh claim and she will be raising concerns about the claims person as she couldn't believe amount of discrepancies in it.  
  • CandyflossCandyfloss Member Posts: 34 Listener
    Good luck as this seems to be a collusion by both the ESA and pip to stop disability cases going forward
  • BrettleeBrettlee Member Posts: 16 Listener
    So a week after being told that a copy of medical assessment would be sent I'm back on phone to be told nobody knows if it actually has been sent, so I've asked for another again sent out 1st class (fingers crossed this one turns up) I ask if there's any information regarding claim to be told a decision was made last Friday & again my partners been awarded no points. So do we appeal immediately or wait for assessors report which may not arrive like the last one? It feels like we're deliberately being held back 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Before you can appeal to the tribunal you will need the decision letter with two copies of the MR decision, one of which you need to send to the tribunal along with your SSCS1.
    There is another course of action you can take as well by asking for a call back from a manager to discuss your concerns but you should have the report before hand

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • BrettleeBrettlee Member Posts: 16 Listener
    Cheers for that, will hold on for assessment report 
  • CandyflossCandyfloss Member Posts: 34 Listener
    Attended pip on 5 September then ESA on 7 .No checks on my health were carried out by the nurse who typed away .Results 0 across the board.This system is farcical as I can not walk more than 50 metres contrary to her assessment..My illnesses are 3 grade copd and heart disease.On my ESA I had to ask for a letter from my GP as they had said she had told them that I was well enough to take public transport.This system is corrupt as I was given 6 points from ESA.My worry is that I will be forced into Job seekers eventually lose my home through sanctions as I will never be able to meet the criteria required.Any advice will be welcome.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @Candyfloss Your request for help would be better posted as a new discussion in the Askabenefitadvisor section or you could ring the advice line number at the top of the page. It is difficult for you to be claiming 2 things at the same time especially as the criteria aren't the same so try and get some help locally if you can from CAB or another local advice agency. The Scope advisers can help you to find help in your area.
  • BrettleeBrettlee Member Posts: 16 Listener
    @Candyfloss my partner is also 3 grade copd her assessment copy came today same 0 points. it says apparently she showed no signs of breathlessness well it was only 20 ft from waiting room to assessment room & that she told them she gets out of breath just hoovering (which she did) but after taking her inhaler she can carry on(which she can't) because of her anxiety she can't leave house alone without either me or her mum but doesn't need aids, it's full of inconsistencies & lies, never have I known something that should be made as easy as possible considering affects it has be so hard 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering

    Hi @Brettlee

    It's Mandatory Reconsideration time - and I wouldn't get too bogged down with the shoddiness of the report. I'd mention that it is in no way a true reflection of your partner's condition, and maybe pick a few choice inaccuracies, but focus on ones that are relevant to the descriptors - discussions on hoovering ability are pointless, as this is not part of the benefit criteria.

    Don't feel I'm being negative by saying this - I don't mean to be, and I am sympathetic to those short-changed by the face to face shambles - I just mean to say that you need to stay focused.

    Citizens advice have some really useful stuff on writing Mandatory Reconsideration, and subsequent appeals:- https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration/

    Start thinking about what evidence you can get from her own practitioners too, as it is likely to go to appeal.

    Hope this helps!

    Good luck, and do let us know if there is anything else we can do!

    Kind regards,

    Mary

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering

    @Candyfloss - not sure if you have posted this elsewhere aswell, but just in case, same advice applied to you as to @Brettlee - have a look at the link to Mandatory Reconsiderations for ESA and get challenging!

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/while-youre-getting-esa/challenging-an-esa-decision/

    If you can find someone locally to help you then great, but don't miss the deadline in doing so.

    Let us know if you need a bit more advice - please post a new thread so you don't get lost!

    Kind regards,

    Mary

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • CandyflossCandyfloss Member Posts: 34 Listener
    Hi Mary.Dropped in to Cab,spoke a few minutes to Mary as she was going to appeals.I told her all the details,her advice was to put in reconsideration to PIP as well as ESA.,also to apply for Jobseekers to protect my Housing Benefit.I decided to speak to the benefits advisor at the council.He reassured me that as soon as my last payment on the 31 Oct,I could put this benefit in place based on the income I will have left IE Occupational pension.Sent Mandatory Reconsideration letter by Recorded Delivery always advisable .As I can't see Mary til 2 Nov I will attend another elsewhere.Hope this goes well .Will keep u all informed as to any progress.LOL. 
  • CandyflossCandyfloss Member Posts: 34 Listener
    Can u post the questions asked on the PIP form  ASAP.Many Thanks 
  • BrettleeBrettlee Member Posts: 16 Listener
    @BenefitsTrainingCo in your medical assessment is there a standard time frame, only I've been reading medical assessment and it says my partner was able to sit for 45mins without having to stand but I've evidence that assessment was only 40mins 15 of which were spent in waiting room. yet another lie
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi Brettlee,

    Each medical assessment can be longer or shorter than the previous one and it's all down to the individual circumstances as to how long they can last for, but they are supposed to record the start and finish time and put it clearly on the front page of the assessment report.

    Lee
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    edited October 2017
    Hi candyfloss, There are too many questions for me to put them all on here and I don't think there is a copy of the form online anywhere, but there are a couple of questions for each activity and the activities and points can be found here:
     https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf 

    There has been amendment to the "Planning and following journeys" descriptor where you have to add "For reasons other than psychological distress" at the beginning of descriptors d and f.

    Lee
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • BrettleeBrettlee Member Posts: 16 Listener
    @BenefitsTrainingCo thank you. It states time started 13:21 but not the time it finished, says on back it was for 45mins but by 13:58 i was picking our son up 2miles away from the assessment place. How can you trust them to make an honest assessment if they can't even get the small things like time right
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Candyfloss,

    There's a copy of the PIP2 form on gov.uk but it can be distracting to refer to as it has 'specimen' written across it in large letters!

    Brettlee  - it's common for there to be lots of mistakes & what we can only call inventions on the assessment reports. As Mary advises above, I would recommend that when you're challenging the decision you focus on the inaccuracies that relate to the PIP criteria. You could mention the time point if you want to, as a way of demonstrating unreliability - but I'm afraid this is very unlikely to make much difference at the mandatory reconsideration stage.

    You can also consider complaining about the quality of the assessment and the report. Both Atos and Capita have complaints systems. You could also consider raising it with your MP. Meanwhile there is an inquiry looking at the quality of the assessments and they actively want to hear from people who are affected:


    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • BrettleeBrettlee Member Posts: 16 Listener
    @BenefitsTrainingCo thanks will, I've posted a letter this morning asking for a reconsideration it gives more truthful detail what problems my partner has with each activity along with copies of her perceptions and copd booklet & we'll definitely give what we've experienced to the inquiry. Even though I'm not claiming it's caused nothing but unneeded stress that ill people shouldn't be made to suffer anymore than they already are. 
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